Classical Numismatics Discussion
  Welcome Guest. Please login or register. All Items Purchased From Forum Ancient Coins Are Guaranteed Authentic For Eternity!!! Explore Our Website And Find Joy In The History, Numismatics, Art, Mythology, And Geography Of Coins!!! Expert Authentication - Accurate Descriptions - Reasonable Prices - Coins From Under $10 To Museum Quality Rarities Welcome Guest. Please login or register. Internet challenged? We Are Happy To Take Your Order Over The Phone 252-646-1958 Explore Our Website And Find Joy In The History, Numismatics, Art, Mythology, And Geography Of Coins!!! Support Our Efforts To Serve The Classical Numismatics Community - Shop At Forum Ancient Coins

New & Reduced


Author Topic: Rarity rating question  (Read 3480 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Johnny

  • Conservator Princeps, Comitia Curiata
  • Procurator Caesaris
  • Caesar
  • ****
  • Posts: 1401
Rarity rating question
« on: April 01, 2007, 09:34:47 am »
any links to what the rarity rating signifies

IE. c=common
      c1=?

        r=rare
        r1= ?

Offline Heliodromus

  • Procurator Caesaris
  • Caesar
  • ****
  • Posts: 2176
Re: Rarity rating question
« Reply #1 on: April 01, 2007, 10:13:32 am »
These are rarity ratings from RIC VII (Roman Imperial Coins, volume 7), and correspond to how many of the coin was found in the collections that the RIC VII authors surveyed.

R5 = 1
R4 = 2-3
R3 = 4-6
R2 = 7-10
R1 = 11-15
S  = 16-21
C1 = 22-30
C2 = 31-40
C3 = 41+

You can't take these to mean anything other than precisely how they are defined. A rarity rating of R5 doesn't mean that only one coins exists - it means that only one coin existed in the collections surveyed, at the time the survey took place. You should take these as roughly indicative of relative rarity, but much has changed since RIC VII was compiled due to new discoveries etc. As an example RIC VII Thessalonica 66 (VIRT EXERC for Constantine I) is rated R5, but I've got photos of 15 specimens that I've seen on sale....

Ben

Offline Johnny

  • Conservator Princeps, Comitia Curiata
  • Procurator Caesaris
  • Caesar
  • ****
  • Posts: 1401
Re: Rarity rating question
« Reply #2 on: April 01, 2007, 11:31:24 am »
thank you , 

Offline Robert_Brenchley

  • Procurator Caesaris
  • Caesar
  • ****
  • Posts: 7307
  • Honi soit qui mal y pense.
    • My gallery
Re: Rarity rating question
« Reply #3 on: April 01, 2007, 02:11:25 pm »
They really mean very little except as a measure of relative rarity. Even then they have to be taken very critically; the flood of finds from the Balkans has left R4's and R5's commoner, in some cases, than common varieties from western mints, in areas where there hasn't been the same mass of finds. Then some appear rarer than they ever really were since museums didn't bother with every variety of say , GLORIA EX. Others may seem commoner than they are because museums made an effort to acquire more interesting types.

I've moved the thread since it didn't seem to be on the most approprate board.
Robert Brenchley

My gallery: https://www.forumancientcoins.com/gallery/index.php?cat=10405
Fiat justitia ruat caelum

Offline Joe Sermarini

  • Owner, President
  • FORVM STAFF
  • Caesar
  • *****
  • Posts: 12138
  • All Coins Guaranteed for Eternity.
    • FORVM ANCIENT COINS
Re: Rarity rating question
« Reply #4 on: April 01, 2007, 03:24:16 pm »
I have heard from some specialty collectors who have all or almost all the common, scarce and R1 - R3 types for their specialty but are missing some R4 and even more R5.  The ratings are not perfect but I think they are still useful.
Joseph Sermarini
Owner, President
FORVM ANCIENT COINS

Offline Rupert

  • Procurator Caesaris
  • Caesar
  • ****
  • Posts: 1993
Re: Rarity rating question
« Reply #5 on: April 02, 2007, 03:19:46 pm »
That's for sure, it's better than nothing. Only, you mustn't let an "R5" rating blind you. And you must know that an R3 in vol. VII means VERY MUCH less than an R3 in Vol. II or III, and that, even in vol. VII, an R3 from Londinium or Arelate is much rarer than an R3 from Siscia, Heraclea or Thessalonica.

Rupert
Ducunt volentem fata, nolentem trahunt.

Offline Johnny

  • Conservator Princeps, Comitia Curiata
  • Procurator Caesaris
  • Caesar
  • ****
  • Posts: 1401
Re: Rarity rating question
« Reply #6 on: April 04, 2007, 08:54:36 pm »
Thank you all for the advice and information


Offline maridvnvm

  • Tribunus Plebis Perpetuus
  • Procurator Monetae
  • Caesar
  • *****
  • Posts: 4444
Re: Rarity rating question
« Reply #7 on: April 05, 2007, 09:29:10 am »
Conversely, in RIC V for example, there are coins that are rated as Common that are Scarce or higher and in some cases simply do not exist.
Regards,
Martin

Andrew Courtney

  • Guest
Re: Rarity rating question
« Reply #8 on: May 06, 2007, 06:48:32 am »
Another thing to consider is, how many pieces of a "rare" coin have been rejected by museum collections because they already have a better example.  I am sure there are cases where a coin in a collection is in EF and  a dozen or so other examples come along that don't come close to the one they already have.  They would either be rejected or stashed away to be forgotten about.  Think about how many coins you have in your own collections that you know you have but haven't cataloged for similar reasons.  I think most would concentrate on the coins that are different from the ones already studied.

Offline rick fox

  • Caesar
  • ****
  • Posts: 630
  • Caesar si viveret, ad remum dareris
Re: Rarity rating question
« Reply #9 on: May 10, 2007, 07:33:46 pm »
This is the reason I like Van Meter's scale better. 
Iacta alea est  - 'The die has been cast' (Julius Caesar Jan 10, 49 BC Rubicon River, Italy)

Offline maridvnvm

  • Tribunus Plebis Perpetuus
  • Procurator Monetae
  • Caesar
  • *****
  • Posts: 4444
Re: Rarity rating question
« Reply #10 on: May 11, 2007, 04:47:01 am »
Van Meter's scale would be fine if it were generally accurate. I often founf it to be completely inaccurate for my collecting fields and so discount it. Something similar but relatively accurate would be of great benefit.
Martin

Offline Jeff Clark

  • Procurator Monetae
  • Consul
  • *****
  • Posts: 256
  • VOTA PVBLICA
Re: Rarity rating question
« Reply #11 on: May 11, 2007, 10:25:23 am »
These rarity questions continue to be a concern for all new and old collectors.  One factor is that a collector who wants, say,  a Vot XX coin of Constantine I has litterally hundreds of thousands of coins to choose from, but if you are looking for a specific coin, say RIC VII, Rome #319, good luck finding it!  (and if you do, be sure to let me buy it from you)  Varieties are, in general, only important to a collector of varieties or a numismatist interested in chronology of coin types and dies.  These type of people are few and far between and there may be only 1 or 2 people in the world who care anything about all the varieties of Vota coins out there.  I do and have searched for 40 years now for all of the varieties listed in RIC.  As Joe noted above, I have all of the R to C3 coins listed inRIC VII.  I have 1 R1 coin left, 8 R2 and over 500 R3-R5 coins remaining to find.  It is my contention that the scale in RIC is by far the best thing available for varieties of coins!!!!!!!!!!!  It is not perfect.  Many coins are more common now than the listing indicates.  A few coins are less common because some of them were based on misleading sources.  Very few are less common than stated if they were indeed viewed that many times!  Unfortunately, with literally many many thousands of varieties, a hoard of 100,000 coins may barely touch the surface for certain types of coins.  It may mean one or more types that once were rare become common.....relatively.  Often, once these coins from a certain hoard are dispersed, there are no more found for decades or longer and thus become rare again.....in the short term.  If you continue to collect and watch you will see the eb and flow of specific coins.  You may never see a coin listed as common come on the market in your collecting lifetime...or you may see hundreds.  There is a lot of luck involved in collecting.  For instance, if I see a particular coin I want before you....guess what...you are never going to see it and the same goes if someone else sees it before I do.
As far as Wildwinds goes, it is a fantastic resource and I commend Dave for doing a great job in keeping it going.  But it is far far far far from being anything remotely close to RIC as far as varieties of coinage.   It doesn't even come close to having 10% of the Vota coins I have in my collection (which is more an indication of my laziness than Dave's dedication). 
So, if you are interested in the relative rarity of a type, Sear, Wildwinds, VanMeter are all good and where every coin collector should start.  If you want to collect specific varieties within a type, RIC is your only choice which has any indication of rarity.  You just can't trust it  100% of the time....but I would wager perhaps 90% of it remains viable and reasonable to this day which is hard to match even with our new found internet abilities!
Once you have been collecting an area for a few decades, you become the only resource you really need for a relative rarity scale.  Until then, use whatever resources you have available to allow you to be as informed as possible on any question of rarity or value you might have.
Jeff Clark

 

All coins are guaranteed for eternity