Classical Numismatics Discussion
  Welcome Guest. Please login or register. 10% Off Store-Wide Sale Until 2 April!!! Explore Our Website And Find Joy In The History, Numismatics, Art, Mythology, And Geography Of Coins!!! Expert Authentication - Accurate Descriptions - Reasonable Prices - Coins From Under $10 To Museum Quality Rarities Welcome Guest. Please login or register. 10% Off Store-Wide Sale Until 2 April!!! Explore Our Website And Find Joy In The History, Numismatics, Art, Mythology, And Geography Of Coins!!! Support Our Efforts To Serve The Classical Numismatics Community - Shop At Forum Ancient Coins

New & Reduced


Author Topic: Possible discovery of a new Roman usurper emperor?  (Read 1911 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Pharsalos

  • Consul
  • ***
  • Posts: 133
Re: Possible discovery of a new Roman usurper emperor?
« Reply #25 on: November 26, 2022, 02:44:13 am »
The researchers have unquestionably done a lot of hard work, and as an amateur collector I am in a weak position to comment. But for those thinking authentic barbarous imitation, could you point me in the direction of a (reputable) auction listing for a western gold imitation of any Roman type dating anywhere from the 1st to 5th century that is cast? I can find one or two (https://sixbid-coin-archive.com/#/en/single/l31078943?text=Cast%20binio), yet this 1713 hoard contained multiple cast types ranging from a Plautius Plancus to Gordian. I find the lack of contemporary cast coins highly suspicious. It could be, as the paper concludes, “…a unique category of ancient coin: heavy cast gold medallions of highly anomalous design that are neither ‘barbarous’ nor counterfeit.” Or it could simply be a cast forgery.

Offline Pekka K

  • Tribunus Plebis Perpetuus
  • Procurator Monetae
  • Caesar
  • *****
  • Posts: 7336
  • ...one coin at a time...
Re: Possible discovery of a new Roman usurper emperor?
« Reply #26 on: November 26, 2022, 03:30:19 am »

Anokhin lists 288 imitative gold coins here:

Анохин О. В. Фальшивомонетчество у варварских племён на территории современной Украины и Молдовы. Каталог варварских подражаний. — Днепропетровск: Середняк Т. К., 2015, — 206 с.

Available in academia.edu

Pekka K

Offline Pharsalos

  • Consul
  • ***
  • Posts: 133
Re: Possible discovery of a new Roman usurper emperor?
« Reply #27 on: November 26, 2022, 07:33:07 am »
Thank you Pekka, great resource! A very comprehensive grouping. Unfortunately I can’t translate the Cyrillic in the PDF (I’m getting emojis).
Based on the photos of the 288 gold examples, I gather while the majority are struck or fourrée/plated, some do look cast. Interestingly, coins above 7 grams are very few - I don’t see any at 8 (although weight is not recorded for all examples).

Offline Pekka K

  • Tribunus Plebis Perpetuus
  • Procurator Monetae
  • Caesar
  • *****
  • Posts: 7336
  • ...one coin at a time...
Re: Possible discovery of a new Roman usurper emperor?
« Reply #28 on: November 26, 2022, 07:54:08 am »

After download Google translator works:

Counterfeiting among the barbarian tribes in the territory
modern Ukraine and Moldova. Catalog of barbaric imitations. —
Dnepropetrovsk: Serednyak T.K., 2015, - 206 p.

Pekka K

Offline Xenophon

  • Consul
  • ***
  • Posts: 258
Re: Possible discovery of a new Roman usurper emperor?
« Reply #29 on: November 27, 2022, 04:22:31 pm »
Here is a short video news story on the BBC about this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8B0s4lyAqDY&ab_channel=BBCNews

Offline Molinari

  • Tribunus Plebis Perpetuus
  • Procurator Monetae
  • Caesar
  • *****
  • Posts: 4549
  • My defeat, if understood, should be my glory
Re: Possible discovery of a new Roman usurper emperor?
« Reply #30 on: November 27, 2022, 05:09:35 pm »
A nice corpus of barbarous types, which someone posted on another forum:

http://barbarous-imitations.narod.ru/index/podrazhanija_zolotym_monetam/0-87

Offline Tacitus

  • Caesar
  • ****
  • Posts: 628
Re: Possible discovery of a new Roman usurper emperor?
« Reply #31 on: November 27, 2022, 07:31:45 pm »
I seem to remember that Saturninus coinage were originally declared a fraud, or ancient imitation as well, then turned out to be a genuine usurper.. That with only 2 known specimens.

So let's not be so quick.  My main question, is why can't his coins be genuine?  So what, no one heard of him..  He may have only lasted a week or so from a small area in Dacia. Possibly killed by local troops or public officials or locals..  Just long enough to mint a few coins and when the locals realized he had no hope, or they were loyal, he got himself killed.  I am sure there are a LOT of people who tried to become emperor that no one today remembers or history lost their name....


Offline Virgil H

  • Caesar
  • ****
  • Posts: 1404
Re: Possible discovery of a new Roman usurper emperor?
« Reply #32 on: November 28, 2022, 12:14:22 am »
I have been reading this with interest. I have no basis, but my gut feel is what Tacitus said. This guy may have declared himself emperor from a small region and lasted a week and the powers that were in other parts of the empire never even knew about him or found out that there had been a rebellious commander in a province later. Who knows, but it is certainly not out of the realm of possibility and he wouldn't have been the only one.

Virgil

Offline Ron C2

  • Procurator Caesaris
  • Caesar
  • ****
  • Posts: 1055
  • Qvod perierat adhvc exstat nvmmorvm
Re: Possible discovery of a new Roman usurper emperor?
« Reply #33 on: November 28, 2022, 07:28:04 am »
I think it's equally possible the coin was minted after 275 when the Romans withdrew from Dacia, but the local romanized Carpi tribes tried to keep semblance of Roman order for a few decades before the goths put and end to all that.

But again, it's all just speculation and underlines that all the researched showed is the coin has wear on it (either from circulation or by other means), and that it was buried for a long time, long enough to leave chemically detectable surface evidence, exact duration TBD. 

The rest is just scholarly fancy.
My Ancient Coin Gallery: Click here

R. Cormier, Ottawa

Offline Dominic T

  • Caesar
  • ****
  • Posts: 781
Re: Possible discovery of a new Roman usurper emperor?
« Reply #34 on: November 28, 2022, 08:42:31 am »
It’s fantastic to read the opinion of so many experts here. I’m not one of them, but my own researchs taught me that this coin has NOT been struck between December 10-19 1582 AD.
DT

Offline Tacitus

  • Caesar
  • ****
  • Posts: 628
Re: Possible discovery of a new Roman usurper emperor?
« Reply #35 on: December 01, 2022, 09:03:47 pm »
It’s fantastic to read the opinion of so many experts here. I’m not one of them, but my own researchs taught me that this coin has NOT been struck between December 10-19 1582 AD.
DT

It wasn't minted December 6-9, 1582 either!  I was there!

Offline Tacitus

  • Caesar
  • ****
  • Posts: 628
Re: Possible discovery of a new Roman usurper emperor?
« Reply #36 on: August 23, 2023, 06:33:02 pm »
I wonder how many unsurpers there were, that we have never heard of...  In a time when it takes weeks to go across the whole of the empire, there may have been hundreds over the years...  It would not surprise me to find badly minted coins of these guys....

Offline Tacitus

  • Caesar
  • ****
  • Posts: 628
Re: Possible discovery of a new Roman usurper emperor?
« Reply #37 on: October 02, 2023, 09:57:44 pm »
Has anyone seen a coin of Gaius Nymphidius Sabinus?

 

All coins are guaranteed for eternity