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Author Topic: Gordian III in Viminacium unlisted and surprising coin  (Read 1136 times)

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Offline leseullunique

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Gordian III in Viminacium unlisted and surprising coin
« on: February 19, 2010, 06:09:41 pm »
I just bought it today and I still don't have the coin in hand but I would like your advices about it.

this coin was refered like an as of Gordian III in viminacium for year II by CGB Paris but it's a quite strange coin.

Usually the asses in Viminacium have small size (18-20mm) and I never saw any asses with naked bust, they are only known for years 1 and 2 except 1 know for year 4 with special reverse (gordian standing right holding spear and crowed by victory) and size of dupondius (22mm for 5.63g)

Here is an as(?) of 24mm with a weight of 5.23g so this coin have size of a dupondius!

If you compare it with others important informations like

there is no naked bust before Year 3
naked but are only know on naked bust
medaillon are only know for years 2 and 4

what do you think about this coin?

wide as?
laurate dupondius?
small medaillon?

thanks in advance for advices.

Regards

Offline Arminius

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Re: Gordian III in Viminacium unlisted and surprising coin
« Reply #1 on: February 19, 2010, 06:18:44 pm »
Here is another one, maybe same obv. die (watch the same irregular surface / die break? behind his head and neck):



As / Æ20 (19-20 mm / 4.05 g),
Obv.: IMP CA[ES M ANT GORDIANVS AVG , laureate bust of Gordian III right, slight drapery on shoulders.
Rev.: P M S C - OL VIM / AN II (in exergue) , Moesia standing facing, head left, extending hands to bull at left and lion at right.
AMNG. I, 33, 78 var. (rare bust variant) ; SNG Cop. 140 .

This special type is quite rare.

I think your coin is also an as, has just a bigger flan and some drapery at sholders has been cleaned or smoothed away.

salut

Offline leseullunique

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Re: Gordian III in Viminacium unlisted and surprising coin
« Reply #2 on: February 19, 2010, 06:29:01 pm »
Thanks for showing your coin, it's realy interesting.

the dies are clearly different, head of Gordian is too different and my coin have 3 dots on reverse around the year.

Regards

leemjvd

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Re: Gordian III in Viminacium unlisted and surprising coin
« Reply #3 on: February 22, 2010, 03:07:42 am »
Hi,

As far as I know there are quite more variables possible in Vimi than thought. Generally coin legends can quite differ. But also (for example) the way the animals behave towards moesia or her way of standing (fullf front vs full front head left). Her dress and headdress can also quite differ. Also the 'dot use' can differ to what (I guess) the carver felt like.

Greetz
Michael van der Lee - NL

Offline leseullunique

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Re: Gordian III in Viminacium unlisted and surprising coin
« Reply #4 on: February 22, 2010, 10:55:04 am »
Thanks for information but I have Martin's book who refer most varieties of this Mint so I already know it.

what I think strange is the naked but on an as because naked bust are only refered on sestertius of year 3.

I made some search on the web and I have find the collection of a great collector who have 1 naked but on a sestertius of year 2 but except the asses of Arminius and the mine, I don't know any other and I didn't find any dupondius with naked bust. I think it's quite strange.

The size of the coin is also surprising for an as, in Martins book, the asses have a size of 18-21.5mm (except the onlyone of year 4 with gordian crowned by victory which is 22.5mm and 5.63g), this one is 24mm it's even a little more than a dupondius who have size of 19-23.5mm...

In my own collection, the asses are of 19, 20 (4 times) and 21mm, dupondii are of 23 (10 times) and  24 mm (2 times)

the weight are

Dupondius 7.89, 9.30, 8.09, 7.00, 7.20, 7.85, 6.67, 7.16, 7.70, 6.88, 6.61 and 7.60g so average weight is about 7.50g
As 2.99, 4.82, 5.01, 3.88, 3.53 and 4.56 so average weight is about 4.13g

the 2 wides as refered are Asses of year 4 and the naked but I just bought have a weight of 5.63 and 5.23g so average weight is 5.43g so 1g more than asses and 2g below dupondii

In Martin's book, average weight of asses is 3.58g and average weight of dupondius is 6.13g so these 2 asses are nearest of dupondii...

So I think it's important to study them...

leemjvd

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Re: Gordian III in Viminacium unlisted and surprising coin
« Reply #5 on: February 23, 2010, 07:34:24 am »

Hi  leseullunique,

As I understand your message this would mean that this type of coin was possibly shortly in vogue end AN II start AN III.
 
The weight size is worth investigating and will make a listing of mine, time permitting.
Do you have a site ? I would love to look at yr Vimi's.

Some mistakes (if it was) were only made on a few coins. I have, in all the years I collect Vimi's, only seen one (1) example of a Gordianus face & Phillippus legend (underbid unfortunately)

Greetz
Michael van der Lee - NL

Offline leseullunique

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Re: Gordian III in Viminacium unlisted and surprising coin
« Reply #6 on: February 23, 2010, 09:19:50 am »
I have no site but I'm actually working on a french forum on a small illustration of each type refered by Martin and also on some unlisted varieties. you can find this this topic on viminacium coinage under Gordian III

as far I know, the asses are only refered for Year 1, and 2 except 1 special specimen during year 4

The naked bust are know for asses of year 2 and sestertii or years 2 and 3 so yes it's a realy short issue.


If you  want to see my coins, I'm in Belgium, it's not far of Netherland, we can try a meeting (and I speak dutch) ;)

Best regards

Offline leseullunique

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Re: Gordian III in Viminacium unlisted and surprising coin
« Reply #7 on: February 23, 2010, 11:42:38 am »
With the gratefull help of a great collector obout this coinage, my coin is probably Martin 1.14.6 with paludamentum on left shoulder, Arminius coin is unrefered in Martin's book, it's a variety of Martin 1.14.5

 

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