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Author Topic: Just received this Kolophon Hemiobol  (Read 1988 times)

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Offline Molinari

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Just received this Kolophon Hemiobol
« on: November 22, 2005, 12:16:15 pm »
Hi all, just looking for some feedback on this hemiobol- I love it.  It cost $30.  Was it a good deal?

Molinari

Offline Robert_Brenchley

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Re: Just received this Kolophon Hemiobol
« Reply #1 on: November 22, 2005, 12:40:26 pm »
If you posted a bigger scan we might be able to tell!
Robert Brenchley

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Offline Molinari

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Re: Just received this Kolophon Hemiobol
« Reply #2 on: November 22, 2005, 12:44:16 pm »
Sorry about that . . . I posted the gallery pic from the seller.  Here's a better one.

Offline rjohara

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Re: Just received this Kolophon Hemiobol
« Reply #3 on: November 24, 2005, 01:06:56 am »
The tiny Ionian silver fractions are always interesting. I'd say that was a good price. Do you know the exact weight? There were several small denominations that were very similar.

RJO

Offline Rupert

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Re: Just received this Kolophon Hemiobol
« Reply #4 on: November 24, 2005, 04:15:22 pm »
This is not a hemiobol but a tetartemorion (quarter obol), recognizable by its TE monogram (partly off flan because the rev. is a little off-centre struck); to its left, there even is an additional picture of - well, what is it? A cicada seen from above? And have a look at the obv. head. Isn't it an incredible achievement to sculpt a head like this on 7 mm and 0.2 grams of silver?
If you haven't noticed it yet: yes, I love these Greek fractions too.

Rupert
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Re: Just received this Kolophon Hemiobol
« Reply #5 on: November 24, 2005, 04:26:44 pm »
You know you are a diehard Greek collector when you post responses on Thanksgiving holiday...    ;D

BTW - looks like a cicada or grasshopper to me, but it could just be an illusion from a damaged die.

Jeff

Offline slokind

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Re: Just received this Kolophon Hemiobol
« Reply #6 on: November 24, 2005, 07:54:58 pm »
I don't question that some have added badges, such as the well loved cicada, but Rosen's Waggoner no. 567 pl. 21 has none, and neither has mine (below).  I'll see if I have Kraay in the house right now, and if he has one with a bug I'll P.S. this.  Pat L.
P.S.  Kraay, Archaic & Classical, pl. 52, nos. 899 (hemiobol) and 900 (tetartemorion).  The latter is very like yours and has two dots for a 'badge' beside the TE and a profile head, already classical in style.  No. 899 is marked otherwise, the half obol, but has the frontal head.  I think that mine might be just a bit earlier than the one published by Waggoner, for which Kraay's dating was c. 460, but not much.  Yours, see Kraay p. 244, should still be before mid-5th century.  The tetartemorion shouldn't weigh more than 0.3g.  P.L.

Offline Molinari

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Re: Just received this Kolophon Hemiobol
« Reply #7 on: November 25, 2005, 03:05:57 pm »
The coin was attributed by the seller as follows:

Later type AR hemiobol (0.21 gr), Kolophon, Ionia, ca. 460 BC. Obv: Apollo facing right. Rev: E (denomination = 1/2 obol) in incuse. VF. Excellent condition for these, rare this nice.

I agree that such detail on a coin this small is a remarkable achievement.  I'll look into those references, thank you all for your opinions.

Offline slokind

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Re: Just received this Kolophon Hemiobol
« Reply #8 on: November 25, 2005, 04:25:08 pm »
We all gave you references, not opinions.  The identification of a coin marked TE is not a matter of opinion, anyway.  Kraay's examples show that either a frontal or a profile head may occur on a tetartemorion or on a hemiobol; his two specimens are marked accordingly.  What you do need to do, before anything, if you're going to collect these fractions, is get a good digital scale, such as MyWeigh's MX-50.  They must be weighed, and only good scales weigh accurately coins so small.
As I matter of opinion, though, I do not think that the mark to the left of the TE on your coin is an accident.
Patricia Lawrence
P.S. Just noticed the dealer's weight.  I assume he has decent scales, to obtain a weight to a hundredth of a gram.  0.21g puts the hemiobol out of the running.

Offline Rupert

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Re: Just received this Kolophon Hemiobol
« Reply #9 on: November 25, 2005, 04:30:12 pm »
This series is quite unusual among ancient coins in that it bears value-marks, such as TE for tetartemorion. The hemiobols of this series have either a H (Greek Eta) or a monogram for HM (hemiobol).

If you want to see a piece quite like yours, go here:

[DEAD LINK REMOVED BY ADMIN]

Rupert

PS: Do read carefully what the seller writes, but they make mistakes too. Best thing to do is to know more than the seller.
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Offline rjohara

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Re: Just received this Kolophon Hemiobol
« Reply #10 on: November 25, 2005, 05:59:00 pm »
SNG Kayhan shows this type with (sometimes) a stork, a cicada, or two pellets as subsidiary reverse marks.

RJO

Offline Molinari

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Re: Just received this Kolophon Hemiobol
« Reply #11 on: November 25, 2005, 06:03:42 pm »
Slokind:  Sorry, didn't mean to offend- just a poor choice of wording on my part.  Thank you all for your references.

Molinari


Offline slokind

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Re: Just received this Kolophon Hemiobol
« Reply #12 on: November 25, 2005, 08:30:43 pm »
Molinari: I'm actually grateful, because we prompted rupert to post that most magnificent hemiobol that I have ever seen!  I want one!!  I only wanted to shock you into checking dealer data.  Sometimes their staff are working under pressure against a deadline, and sometimes they just don't know.
Pat Lawrence

Offline rjohara

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Re: Just received this Kolophon Hemiobol
« Reply #13 on: November 25, 2005, 09:39:30 pm »
One of the neatest online collections of tiny silver fractions is Doug Smith's page of micro-photos. They simultaneously inspire and discourage me, since my pictures never come out as well as his. The page does include an image of one of these tiny Kolophon fractions, also with a cicada.

Bob O'Hara

Offline Rupert

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Re: Just received this Kolophon Hemiobol
« Reply #14 on: November 26, 2005, 05:25:07 am »
Molinari: I'm actually grateful, because we prompted rupert to post that most magnificent hemiobol that I have ever seen!  I want one!!
Pat Lawrence

Pat, I always like to post coins of mine, and when I don't have a nice one, I search on coinarchives. If you enter "kolophon not drach" (otherwise it will show you lots of Alexander drachms and tets from Kolophon), you get a very nice collection of pictures. One of my favourites is this one:
[DEAD LINK REMOVED BY ADMIN]
Incredible for a tetartemorion of 0.18 grams, isn't it?

Rupert
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Offline Molinari

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Re: Just received this Kolophon Hemiobol
« Reply #15 on: November 26, 2005, 11:19:19 am »
That's a magnificent coin.  What does a coin like that usually sell for?  Is it very rare?

I'll have to give that web-page a look, thank you very much for the link.

Molinari 

Offline Rupert

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Re: Just received this Kolophon Hemiobol
« Reply #16 on: November 26, 2005, 03:15:11 pm »
Molinari, coinarchives (www.coinarchives.com/a) is my most used online resource. It lists auction results from some of the leading auction firms in the world. This specimen was sold at Peus in Frankfurt for a ridiculous 130€. However, I don't believe it's 500-480 BC, as they say. Too advanced engraving. I'd be especially interested in Patricia's opinion. Pat, what do think about it? Can this be 480 BC?

Rupert
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Offline slokind

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Re: Just received this Kolophon Hemiobol
« Reply #17 on: November 26, 2005, 05:10:30 pm »
It could be from the 450s, conceivably from the later 460s, comparing a lot of very venturesome terracotta Melian reliefs (for example).  Not 480s, I agree.  A very brilliant engraver, he manages by dead reckoning what end-of-5th-century engravers (Syracuse, Katane) have trouble with, that foreshortened nose.  This brilliant, very early (I think) one, like some of the very most brilliant first attempts in vase-painting, succeeds in looking natural.  A great artist differs in really knowing what he wants to achieve.  One might almost think that, with relatively little physical work on the die, requiring only genius, some of the best intaglio engravers vied with one another.  The rendering of the hair, and the conception of the visage of Apollo are incompatible with a dating c 480, in my opinion.  Ionian it is but not far in date from the original of the Kassel Apollo (even as known in those copies), which I think indeed is Attic (never mind which name).
These initial breakthroughs in western art are always breathtaking.
Patricia Lawrence

 

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