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The Papal Corner
Follibus Fanaticus:
Repost of Response on Pope Joan Discussion
I repost my research on "Pope Joan" for the education and amusement of those interested in papal coins
Repost starts
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Gobble, gobble. Only a turkey that does not read would bring up the old monks’ joke about Pope Joan. Read "The oxford Dictionary of Popes" by J.D.N. Kelly [He ain’t Catholic.] Oxford University Press, oxford, 1986. Kelly treats the legend in an appendix, pp. 329-330. Kelly says: "The story first appears between 1240 and 1250…The story, often embellished with fantastic details, was accepted in Catholic circles without question for centuries [Get that!]…It [the story] scarcely needs painstaking refutation today, for not only is there no evidence of a female pope at any of the dates suggested for her reign, but the known facts of the respective periods make it impossible to fit one in…Its [the story’s] kernel is generally taken to be an ancient Roman folk tale.
When in doubt of a fact about the papacy, I always read Kelly, who accompanied the Archbishop of Canterbury (Michael Ramsey) on his visit to Pope Paul VI. I have behind me in my bookcase several histories of the popes by Roman Catholics. I fear to say they contain grosser myths than the one about a female pope.
Now, on Pope Joan—I suggest we work together on a set of medals depicting the events of her legendary reign. The Franklin Mint will issue these in gold, silver and copper. The set will fit right in with other Franklin Mint products.
Follibus Fanaticus
Follibus Fanaticus:
A GOOD, GOOD, GOOD BOOK
One eternal papal problem -- they issue from 42 mints! Three are in today's France, so they get placed in French, not Italian, books about coins. A good book covers many of the issues of the 39 mints now in Italy. All those mints, mostly in an area the size of the State of New Jersey. The soft hearted fathers let every hill town crank out a penney and a nickel to foster local pride.
That good book is: Biaggi, Elio. MOMETE E ZECCHE MEDIEVALI ITALIANE dal sec. VIII al sec. XV {Medieval Italian Coins and Mints from the 8th Through the 15th Centuries.} Montenegro sas Ediziioni Numismatiche di Eupremio Montenegto, Turino [Turin], Italy, 1992, 526 pages.
Mints are alphabetical from Acqui [the one in Peidmont] through Volterra. Names and dates are given for rulers. It's easy to use, even if you understand no Italian. Prices are given for Fine, Very Fine and Extra Fine. Prices are in lire -- good luck on translation into Euros, then dollars. But the price structure for each coin is there. A Fine costs X; a Very fine costs 1.5 or 2 times X; an XF costs 3 to 10 times X.
I did find an omission from this good book, known as Muntoni 38/39 or Ryan 14. Pius II [1458-64] showed up in Mantua, which he did not own, with his chamberlan, one Rodrigo Borgia [1431-1503], who became Pope Alexancer VI in 1492. Rodrigo cranked out an issue in gold duckets, whose reverses read ...D-[IE]TE MANTOVA [The Meeting at Mantua]. The local power, one Ludocivo III Gonzaga [1444-78], B. Numbers 1137-1149, had absolutely no objections to an extra gold coinage in his town. Berman lists it as B. 379, price $4,500. Ryan No. 14 goes for $2,000 in Fine and $4,500 in Very Fine. Allen, you coppied John Carlin's estimate!
Follibus Fanaticus:
FORGERY: The Fear of Collectors
As I write my book on papal coins, I realize the greatness of Philip Grierson and Mark Blackburn’s great work, "Medieval European Coinage…1. The Early Middle Ages 5th – 1-th Centuries." Cambridge University Press published it in 1986, all 673 pages of it.
How does it affect my work? Grierson's citation of counterfeits demands that I revise which popes issued, whom they issued with, and the very flow of the papal coinage. Greirson tells who counterfeited what, when and sometimes-hilarious mistakes made. When I integrate his findings into a tabular form, it may cause distress. Collectors, who paid high prices for them, will certainly stone me. [One collector paid a high price for an object marked "counterfeit."]
For example, of the antipope Christopher [903-904], Grierson states [p. 261] "Only forgeries known." So, poor Christopher must be banished from numismatics, but not history. He will possibly rate a footnote, but no mention in my text. No Muntoni No 1 [Vol. 4, p. 143] nor CNI 1 for him. Berman [p. 41] notes: "It is now believed that all coins of Antipope Christopher (903-904) are counterfeit." Good man Allen.
Stories of counterfeiting from any branch of collecting are always instructive. Here’s a recent "Lulu" I heard about the King of Hobbies, collecting rare paintings.
The assistant curator entered the room of a great establishment and saw the benefactor and her friends, and they unveiled her gifts before the staff. All gasped at the beauty. Lastly, an 18- by 15-inch masterpiece appeared. All gasped doubly, especially the assistant curator. He knew it was a fake.
Patrons are not to be offended. The assistant curator paced the painting under perpetual "restoration." It hung only when the benefactor visited. Time passes. The old man had to retire. On the last hour of his last day, he entered the office of the head of the institution and ‘fessed up.
"How do you know for certain that the painting is a forgery," roared the great head, an expert with much standing.
"Because, in 1924, in Paris, I painted it myself," squeaked the retiree.
"Well then," quoth the head, "Leave this building forever, and take your painting with you." The retiree did so, and the painting hung above his mantle till he died at a great age.
I know the name of the painting, the supposed artist and the real artist. If it shows up in a art catalog, I’m going to have some real fun.
Cheers,
Follibus Fanaticus
Follibus Fanaticus:
THE COIN I DESIRE MOST
It pays to advertise. Let’s not be shy. It is:
Papal States. Urban VI [1378-1389]. Avignon Mint. Billon denaro [also called a half-gros]. Miter. VRB’ PP SESTVS. Rev. Patent cross. S[AN]T’ PET E P[AV]L.
Serifini 8. Muntoni 1. On reverse, crossed keys in quadrants two and three.
Muntoni 2, not in Serifini. On reverse, crossed keys in quadrents one and four.
Ryan 201:1. Berman 221. Ryan and Berman elide the two issues into one coin.
De May. 49. Lists Muntoni 1 and 2 as one coin.
De May then finds a real kicker. He lists a half-gros that shows: Seated pope blessing. VRBANVS PP SEXTVS. Rev. Canton cross, crossed keys in [two] cantons. Not illustrated. Ryan lists as 201:2; Rare. Berman lists as 220; no comment or price. He asks: "Does it exist." Yes, Allen, it exists. I’VE SEEN IT, AND IT’S REAL!
The half gross also lies buried in two old books. Poey D’Avant [1858] lists it in his vol. 2, page 353 as Number 4191. No line drawing. Cinagli [1848] lists it as Urbano VI, Number 9, on page 35. He calls it a grosso, Rarity 3, and found examples in 3 out of 7 collections quoted. CNI does not list it, because that work does not cover the three Papal French mints. Serafini does not list because the Vatican collection did not have one when he published. Serafini is sort of the BMC of papal coinage.
Because the half-gros is impossibly rare, I desire the denaro.
The popes have issued coins that art masterpieces. Coins that commemorate events – such as a coin commemorating the fall of Communism, Berman 3572. Coins with saints. Coins with buildings, roads, harbors! Why this little coin? I am a history oriented coin collector.
One must travel back to the events that began on April 7, 1378. Eleven days after the death of Gregory XI, the cardinals entered the first conclave at Rome in 75 years. While it was a disorderly election, it was far less so than the affair in 1214 at Carpentras, France, when the French nobles broke in and murdered all the cardinals’ servants. The terrified cardinals refused to meet again till 1216, when they elected a French commoner to spite the nobles. N o rules of order existed governing papal elections.
The crowd at Rome wanted a Roman. The next day the cardinals elected Bishop Bartolomo Pignatelli [1318-1389], who was chamberlain of the Church. He ran the mints at Rome and Avignon as part of his job. He was from Naples. Just to make sure, the cardinals held a second unanimous vote. The new pope called himself Urban VIII.
Urban alarmed the cardinals. On September 20, 1378, 20 cardinals at Fondi elected Robert of Geneva [1342-1394], a "cousin" of the King of France, as their pope. He called himself Clement VII. "They crowned him with the papal tiara and all the regalia. The [new] Camerlingo, with considerable foresight, had stolen them from Urban’s treasury." [Glasfund. The Antipope. P. 85.].
So began the Great Western Schism. French historians often write that Urban was never recognized at Avignon as pope. The extant half-gros and denaro deep six that assertion.
HERE ARE TWO COINS THAT ARE MEANINGFUL HISTORICAL DOCUMENTS.
That’s why I want the commoner of the two.
Follibus Fanaticus.
Follibus Fanaticus:
THE 7 MOST IMPORTANT REFERENCES FOR PAPAL COINS
THE 7 MOST IMPORTANT REFERENCE WORKS FOR COLLECTING AND RESEARCHING PAPAL COINS, IN MY OPPINION, ARE
1. J.D.N. Kelly. The Oxford Dictionary of Popes. New York, Oxford University Press, 1986. 347 pages.
Good bios of the 264 popes, 30 or so anti-popes, and one nonexistent female pope. Kelly is head and shoulders above all other papal bios. For example, Richard P. McBrien treats us to the legend the Alexander VI died from poison. Alexander and his son, Cesare, exhibited classic malaria symptoms. The poison story ranks with Pope Joan as fiction. So much for "Lives of the Popes," by the author of "Catholicism."
2. Francesco Muntoni. Le Monete dei Papi e degli Stati Pontifici. [The Coins of the Popes and of the Papal States.] P&P Santamaria, Rome, 1972-1973, 4 [huge] volumes. Forni has reprinted it.
CNI omits the three French mints. Serifini covers only the [large] Vatican collection. Muntoni covers everything, except the earliest coins, which were unknown in 1972/73.
3. Michael D. O’Hara. "A Find of Byzantine Silver from the Rome Mint for the Period A.D. 641 – 752." Swiss Numismatic Review. Vol. 64, 1965, pp. 105 140, 22 plates. A reprint exists.
Covers the earliest papal coins.
4. Allen G. Berman. Papal Coins. Attic Books, Ltd. South Salem, N.Y., 1991, 255 pages, 77 pages of plates.
If you are going to price a papal coin, you need this book. The price structure is solid. The going rate today is 2B, 2.5 B or 0.50 B. B is the Berman price. Not all papal coins are in this book. Finding a "not in Berman" is my own greatest coin story.
5. Thomas F.X. Noble. The Republic of St. Peter, The Birth of the Papal State, 680 – 825. The University of Pennsylvania Press, Philadelphia, 1984, 376 pages.
How did the popes, bishops, become civil rulers? Was there really such a state as the Republic of St. Peter? Mr. Noble tells you how this show got started.
6. Philip Grierson and Mark Blackburn. Medieval European Coinage, 1, The Early Middle Ages (5th-10rh Centuries). Cambridge University Press, London, 1991, 674 pages.
You can’t get anywhere with the early papal coinage without this book. Just the explanation of counterfeits changes Muntoni’s 1972-74 picture.
7. Aeneas Sylvius Piccolomini [Pius II]. Memoirs of a Renaissance Pope." Trans., Florence A Gragg. G.P. Putnam’s Sons, New York, 1959, 381 pages.
A completely delightful book. Pius is funny. That’s probably why I like him so much.
Cheers,
Follibus Fanaticus
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