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Encapsulated Coins
Virgil H:
Hopefully this is an appropriate place to post this and I don't break any rules, but I am really interested in this question.
A well known reputable auction house has an auction from the Robert W. Bartlett Bequest Sold for the Benefit of the American Numismatic Society. Every single coin I have looked at there is NGC encapsulated and all the NGC tags say ex ANS.
So, did Robert Bartlett have all his coins encapsulated or did ANS send them to NGC prior to consigning them for auction? Given the reputation of ANS, I see no reason why they would need to do that. Maybe to increase perceived value? I don't know. The NGC involvement does not make me want to bid on any of the coins any more than I would if it was just from the Robert W. Bartlett Bequest Sold for the Benefit of the American Numismatic Society. I mean, that is good enough for me. If I get one of these, I will break the case, in any case.
Anyone know?
Thanks,
Virgil
Altamura:
--- Quote from: Virgil H on August 31, 2021, 12:44:42 am ---... Given the reputation of ANS, I see no reason why they would need to do that. ...
--- End quote ---
Perhaps they don't trust themselves in their reputation ;)?
On the ANS homepage there isn't any comment about that: http://numismatics.org/bartlett-collection-now-at-auction-to-benefit-the-ans/
--- Quote from: Virgil H on August 31, 2021, 12:44:42 am ---... So, did Robert Bartlett have all his coins encapsulated or did ANS send them to NGC prior to consigning them for auction? ...
--- End quote ---
The latter. On each of the NGC tags you have the ANS logo in the background.
I don't understand why they are participating in this nonsense, perhaps it is really the hope for more money :-\.
Ironically in the current volume of the American Journal of Numismatics there is an article about that encapsulation hype: Heinz Tschachler, "When the Magic Has Gone: Coin Collecting and the Senses", AJN 32, 2020, pp. 413 ff (not available online yet :-\). He tries to shed some light on this movement from a psychological and sociological point of view (Tschachler comes from Austria, the home country of Sigmund Freud :)).
Regards
Altamura
dwarf:
Either the [DEALER'S AUCTION] photos were made from un-encapsuled coins - or they do a very good job with "photoshoping"
Regards
Klaus
Meepzorp:
Hi folks,
I can't comment on this specific situation because I know nothing about it. However, generally speaking, based on past experience, I don't know how competent some people at ANS are. I don't want to make it look like I am disparaging the ANS as a whole. And, to be perfectly honest, I had only one experience with ANS in my life, and that was about 20 years ago. And you shouldn't base an entire organization's reputation on one experience. But that one experience left me wondering if some people at ANS were severely incompetent and clueless.
About 20 years ago, I was seeking to purchase NOS ("new old stock") SNG ANS volumes. Some (but not all) of those volumes could still be purchased brand new from ANS at that time. I had to purchase my other SNG ANS volumes used from dealers. I have had the complete 5 volume Italy/Sicily set for 20 years now.
When I called ANS 20 years ago, the man I dealt with didn't know what was going on. He didn't even know what reference books I was referring to. He was completely clueless and utterly confused.
Could it be possible that this incident (the slabbed coins) is a result of similar confusion and/or cluelessness and/or incompetence at ANS?
Meepzorp
PMah:
I am a bit puzzled by most of these comments and mindful that these are being "offered for sale elsewhere", so I won't comment on the coins.
However, as an ANS member and frequent visitor, I do know that:
ANS has nothing to do with grading coins; it is a research institution. (Don't confuse it with the similar-acronym entity that is a commercial trade organization and makes a big deal about grading.) Coins offered on the market are graded for the purpose of sale, having nothing to do with their historical or numismatic research value. The encapsulation company does not guarantee authenticity of ancient coins, so the "competency" of either entity is irrelevant in that respect. The auction house is likely the party that guarantees authenticity, as do all legitimate dealers such as Forum. (Without going into the "offered for sale elsewhere" issue, I know ANS disclaims grading on direct deaccessions.)
As to slabbing, well, I don't like them at all myself, but a non-profit institution does have an obligation to try to maximize value when deaccessioning objects, and/or that may have been a condition of the bequest, or just an experiment with a limited number of objects to see if it is worth it. The "ex-ANS" pedigree would have been on any other dealer's ticket or catalogue.
As to Meep's comment, well... 20 years ago was ... 20 years ago. The ANS is not now and was not then a large institution with numerous non-curatorial staffers; there is a good chance your phone call was answered by a custodian (the gentleman who retired in 2020 as facilities manager worked there for 40 years) or a security guard. I am confident anyone on the curatorial staff would have known what SNG-ANS meant.
The best way to assess ANS is .... by joining as a member. Just don't expect them to tell you how much your coin is worth!
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