Is this coin genuine. Ptolemy I Tetradrachm 14.37 grams

[Jeffrey B]

I bought this coin because it is absolutely beautiful. I have had some questions about it because it is so nice. I have had a couple of dealers look at it, and the overall consensus is good. However I have had one dealer I trust have a few doubts about it, however he said wasn't entirely sure, mainly because of the eagle on the reverse, but I have seen eagles cruder than this on genuine coins. The delta master signature is present behind Ptolemy's ear, it is very clear. I wish I could show you it in person as it has beautiful color, some toning present. The coin is definitely stuck according to all who have looked at it, but I am new to this ancients collecting, and I just want some real good advice on this coin as it is possibly a good find if it is genuine. The weight falls within the correct range as from what I have read. The only thing I struggle with is finding enough information on Ptolemaic tetradrachms. I do not have a lot of literature on ancients and I seem to get lost when looking on the internet. It would be greatly appreciated if anyone could give me more information on the piece and I certainly would want to know what people think in regards to its authenticity. Thank you all for your help. PS if it is real, is it worth sending it off to get graded by NGC or is having that of no real importance on a coin such as this?

[djmacdo]

Clearly a modern product--not ancient at all.  Have you checked the section on this site on forgeries?  The obverse style differs from originals, and the reverse is absolutely crude compared to originals.

[Joe Sermarini]

Fake coin report please.  Volunteer?

[Callimachus]

Compare with this one:
   
https://www.forumancientcoins.com/gallery/displayimage.php?pos=-103513

Different monograms on reverse, and no delta behind the ear, but the differences in style are obvious when this one is compared to that of the original poster.

[Jeffrey B]

Fake coin report please.  Volunteer?

Yes sir,

     I absolutely volunteer this for the fake coin reports. This is a learning experience for me and I definitely want to help others by sharing my blunder. list if for all to see, and maybe another will surface and someone will be able to reference it in the future. I wish I had it for reference when I bought the thing, obviously I wouldn't have, and I would have informed the seller at the time. I did contact him and he said he is willing to make it right, and since I do a lot of business with him, I have no doubt that he will refund me on it in one way or another. I have bought real coins from him before, but I think he has had a few questionable pieces that come in from time to time.

[Jeffrey B]

Clearly a modern product--not ancient at all.  Have you checked the section on this site on forgeries?  The obverse style differs from originals, and the reverse is absolutely crude compared to originals.

Thank you for the help in determining the authenticity of this piece. I really appreciate it. I am still learning and this was a question I had to ask. Luckily a local ancients dealer, Steve, out of the Augusta area near me pointed out the problems and his concerns with the coin, which matched your description and he too said he believed it to be a fake. I am new to collecting ancients and bought it without prior knowledge. Since then I have researched the coin to death, and recently started to doubt it myself and it thus why I posted this to begin with. At least the seller is going to make it right as he doesn't know enough about ancients either and would never have intentionally sold me a fake coin. He does have some authentic ancients he sells, but they are mostly common denarius of different emperors an not the best of quality, generally average quality. Thanks again for the much needed help on this, I really appreciate it.

[Jeffrey B]

Compare with this one:
   
https://www.forumancientcoins.com/gallery/displayimage.php?pos=-103513

Different monograms on reverse, and no delta behind the ear, but the differences in style are obvious when this one is compared to that of the original poster.

Thank you for the link, I agree it is quit different, and so are the many other coins that I have compared it to online. It is a bit of a struggle for a novice such as me. I am new to the ancients and was only a collector of Early American coinage until I got bored with the same designs and basically pour craftsmanship. These ancient coins have such beauty to them and they really have become the new addiction. Anyways do you find it interesting that they went to the trouble to include the delta master signature behind the ear? That is what has floored me, I think the one reason I had any consideration to its authenticity and purchase in the first place was the fact that I say the delta symbol and thought who would go through the trouble to include this on a reproduction. But now that I think about it, that is exactly why, because it would fool a lot of people who see it and think the same thing I thought. The thought I had was I do not see any current fakes listed with this style or type and usually the lack of copies is a good sign, but I guess it can also be a problem as there is no other coin similar enough to compare it to. There has to be more of these out there you would think, but hey I guess a really skilled counterfeiter tried but could only fool a novice such as I. Thanks again for the help I really appreciate it.

[cmcdon0923]

Jeffrey...just one comment, and I don't mean this to sound as harsh as it might come off in print...

If the dealers you showed this coin to couldn't immediately condemn it as a fake, especially based off the almost comical reverse design, then I would strongly recommend that you avoid their opinions in the future, as they either know nothing about ancients, or simply didn't want to hurt your feelings by telling you that you bought a fake.  Either way, they are not helpful to you in any way.


Craig

[djmacdo]

A hint for the future--look at many, many pictures of ancient coins--that is the way to develop an eye for style.  Also, one can now buy on cd for a couple of bucks the great catalogues that would have cost thousands a few years ago.  They are filled with great photos of excellent coins.

[Jeffrey B]

Jeffrey...just one comment, and I don't mean this to sound as harsh as it might come off in print...

If the dealers you showed this coin to couldn't immediately condemn it as a fake, especially based off the almost comical reverse design, then I would strongly recommend that you avoid their opinions in the future, as they either know nothing about ancients, or simply didn't want to hurt your feelings by telling you that you bought a fake.  Either way, they are not helpful to you in any way.


Craig

I appreciate what you've told me, as the truth hurts. I will give cudos to Steve from Augusta as he did flat out said he thought it was a fake, and yes because of the "comical" and cheesy reverse. He told me I can get a second opinion but he though it was fake. So maybe I worded it wrong earlier but as for the seller I guess he doesn't know. But I really appreciate your blunt honesty. Sometimes we need hard truths to learn from. I would hope that there was no intention of selling a fake coin to rip off a poor novice such as i, but again it happens every day. Thanks Craig.

[Jeffrey B]

A hint for the future--look at many, many pictures of ancient coins--that is the way to develop an eye for style.  Also, one can now buy on cd for a couple of bucks the great catalogues that would have cost thousands a few years ago.  They are filled with great photos of excellent coins.

Thank you for this, and I really appreciate the tip. That certainly sounds like a life saver those catalogs are very expensive. This is definitely the way to go.