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Author Topic: Claudius II  (Read 1956 times)

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coindoctor

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Claudius II
« on: July 09, 2006, 11:18:07 pm »
I recently found a claudius gothicus bronze antoninianus, (obverse IMP C M AVR CLAVDIVS AVG, radiate head right; reverse VICTORIAE GERMAN): from a lot of uncleaned coins. Not in the best of shape but definitely attributable. I'm wondering if anyone can tell me the rarity of this coin as I don't have a copy of RIC.
Thanks for any help.
Dennis

Offline Marius

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Re: Claudius II
« Reply #1 on: July 10, 2006, 03:35:12 am »
Hi Coindoctor,
I don't see a VICTORIAE GERMAN listed for Gothicus.  There are several VICTORIA GERMAN and VICTORIAE GOTHIC types.  Is it possibly one of those?
Richard Marius Beale
Four Bad Years:  http://sonic.net/~marius1/mysite/

coindoctor

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Re: Claudius II
« Reply #2 on: July 10, 2006, 02:16:19 pm »
Yes, I'm sorry about the typo. VICTORIA GERMAN...

I don't see any mintmarks. Are you able to see if there is more than one for this type?

Thanks,
Dennis

Offline Gladius

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Re: Claudius II
« Reply #3 on: July 11, 2006, 07:16:21 am »

Are you sure your readings are correct?  If so I would like to see a scan of the coin.  The reverse legend VICTORIA GERMANIC is known with the obverse legend IMP CLAVDIVS P F AVG, SPQR in exergue.  The reverse legend VICTOR GERMAN is known with the same obverse legend, blank exergueMint of Cyzicus.  Best regards, Finn Johannessen

coindoctor

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Re: Claudius II
« Reply #4 on: July 11, 2006, 06:22:06 pm »
Finn
I'm sorry I don't have a scanner and attempts to use my cheap digital camera were too blurry to be any use. The coin has an edge chip at the 12 oclock position that extends in the field. This is the exact inscription that remains. obverse: IMPCLAV__IVSPFAVG  rev: VICTORI?__ERMAN. Exerg:blank
After reading your note and looking at the coin again I concede that the second I in "victori_" may  be an anomoly (slightly elevated position) but it is very linear and in the right axis.
Any Idea of the rarity of the coin? Victor German or Victoria German.
 Thanks for your help.
Dennis

Offline Gladius

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Re: Claudius II
« Reply #5 on: July 12, 2006, 02:57:15 am »
Your coin is most probably identical with this one:

http://tinyurl.com/potwb
http://tinyurl.com/fjbsg

If the bust type is the same (draped & cuirassed seen from behind) it is - even though you don't see them too often - not a rare coin.  Scarce at best.  Radiate head right is somewhat less common, other bust types are not known to me.

Best regards,
Finn Johannessen

Offline Marius

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Re: Claudius II
« Reply #6 on: July 12, 2006, 03:39:39 am »
If coindoctor described the obverse legend right, then his coin is from Cyzicus but unlisted.  There are three similar types:

RIC 247, and RIC 248 have the reverse legend VICTOR GERMAN and VICTORIA, but the obverse legend is IMP CLAVDIVS PF AVG

RIC 249 has VICTORIA GERMAN but obverse legend IMP CLAVDIVS AVG

RIC 250 has VICTORIA GERMANIC and coindoctor's obverse legend "IMP C M AVR CLAVDIVS AVG" but it has SPQR in exerge (the above coins have nothing in exerge).

All of these coins are liste as rare.

If your coin really does have the legend IMP C M AVR CLAVDIVS AVG, and nothing in exerge, then it is unlisted.  Hopefully this helps.

Best regards,
Richard
Richard Marius Beale
Four Bad Years:  http://sonic.net/~marius1/mysite/

Offline Gladius

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Re: Claudius II
« Reply #7 on: July 12, 2006, 08:43:31 am »
The current RIC you refer to is pretty much useless when it comes to the coins from the reign of Claudius Gothicus.  It is so full of errors, misunderstandings and mistakes that it is close to worthless as a reference.  The long obverse legend  (IMP C M AVR CLAVDIVS AVG - SPQR in exergue) belongs to the third emission/first series.  In this series the VICTORIA GVTTICA  AVG, VICTORIAE GOTHIC and VICTORIA GOTHIC is known, his victory over the germans had obviously still not taken place.  In the next series which has the shorter obverse legend IMP CLAVDIVS P F AVG combined with the SPQR exergue the VICTORIA GERMANIC reverse is introduced.  This coin probably deserves a to be called rare.  In the next series from this emission with the short obverse legend IMP CLAVDIVS AVG, still SPQR in exergue, there are only known three reverses - FORTVNA REDVX, VICTORIAE GOTHIC and PAX AETERNA.  In the forth and last issue with the IMP CLAVDIVS P F AVG obverse legend, blank exergue, the VICTOR GERMAN reverse is introduced.  A fairly common coin, I have several myself.  It is of course possible that the coin is a VICTORIA GERMANIC struck with an obverse die from the previous series, it can also be an engravers error.  But from the information we have - most important the P F you see in the obverse legend - I am pretty sure my previous attribution is correct.  The RIC rarity ratings for the coins of Claudius Gothicus is, btw, as trustable as the rest of the publication.    Best regards, Finn Johannessen



coindoctor

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Re: Claudius II
« Reply #8 on: July 12, 2006, 07:03:41 pm »
Sorry for all the confusion. In haste I copied and pasted the description from wildwinds of the wrong coin. I now can see that the coin is RIC 247. A little more cleaning with a dental pick and the I after victor disappeared! Unfortunately from what you say the most common of these types.
Nevertheless the coin has a beautiful green patina and I'm quite happy to have it. Now I need to figure out how to take good pictures to post coins in the future.
Thanks for all the help.
Dennis

Offline Marius

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Re: Claudius II
« Reply #9 on: July 13, 2006, 12:09:01 am »
I'm glad Finn checked in here, and that coindoctor could attribute his coin.  I knew there was a Gothicus expert around but forgot who. 
Finn, do you have a web page, or have you written any articles about what you've learned about Claudius II coins?
Richard Marius Beale
Four Bad Years:  http://sonic.net/~marius1/mysite/

Offline Gladius

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Re: Claudius II
« Reply #10 on: July 13, 2006, 04:39:59 am »
No web page, I wrote an article in the Celator some years ago but it is really not something I would recommend very strongly.  But there is much very useful information to be found here:

http://www.cgb.fr/monnaies/rome/r13/indexgb.html

A great publication is "The Normanby hoard..." which is very hard to find, I belive, however, there is currently a copy up for auction on eBay.  You may say that finding useful information on this coinage is harder to find than most of the coins.

Best regards,
Finn Johannessen

 

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