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Author Topic: Skepsis SNG Ashmol 1194/SNG Cop 475?  (Read 802 times)

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Offline Virgil H

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Skepsis SNG Ashmol 1194/SNG Cop 475?
« on: January 03, 2021, 10:09:04 pm »
This is my first attempt at identifying a Greek coin It was a very different process than the late Roman bronze. Also my first attempt at macro photography as this one is so thick it doesn't scan well. I need to get better focus, but this seems to be OK.

I think this one is a Skepsis SNG Ashmol 1194/SNG Cop 475. One thing throwing me off is the measurements and weights. Most of the coins like this are much smaller and lighter, but this one seems within a reasonable range of the SNG numbers I came up with.

Diameter is 17mm at widest and 14mm at narrowest, so I would call this AE17. Weight is 3.989 grams, which is less than the reference coin I looked at, which was 4.48 grams. Reference coin is AE15. I have found nothing closer unless I am wrong about Skepsis. Here is where my inexperience really shows. One thing that I noticed was searches for E K brought nothing useful at all. Once I realized it was a fir tree and not a palm, that helped.

Thank you.

Offline Altamura

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Re: Skepsis SNG Ashmol 1194/SNG Cop 475?
« Reply #1 on: January 04, 2021, 03:44:26 am »
This coin is certainly from Skepsis in Troas, the iconography is so typical that you cannot go wrong  :).

Where did you get your references? I personally never trust a dealer's identification because quite often they are not correct. There are some doing a very good job, others are not so perfect  :-\.

SNG Ashmolean can be found online, number 1194 is this one: http://www.s391106508.websitehome.co.uk/PHP/SNG_PHP/04_03_Reply.php?Series=SNGuk&AccessionNo=0509_1194
and it seems to match quite perfectly  :).

Regards

Altamura

Offline Virgil H

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Re: Skepsis SNG Ashmol 1194/SNG Cop 475?
« Reply #2 on: January 04, 2021, 10:51:00 am »
This coin is certainly from Skepsis in Troas, the iconography is so typical that you cannot go wrong  :).

Where did you get your references? I personally never trust a dealer's identification because quite often they are not correct. There are some doing a very good job, others are not so perfect  :-\.

SNG Ashmolean can be found online, number 1194 is this one: http://www.s391106508.websitehome.co.uk/PHP/SNG_PHP/04_03_Reply.php?Series=SNGuk&AccessionNo=0509_1194
and it seems to match quite perfectly  :).

Altamura, thank you very much. That reference link certainly looks right to me. The reference I used was https://www.wildwinds.com/coins/greece/troas/skepsis/t.html , although I looked in various other places, as well. The specific coin is a ways down the page, the image link is https://www.wildwinds.com/coins/greece/troas/skepsis/SNGAsh_1194.jpg I made this one harder that it probably should have been, especially misinterpreting the EK and thinking it was a palm tree. I had also not heard of Skepsis before this. I will never forget the SK and Fir tree. LOL. Thanks for that link, I have bookmarked that site. I am finding that the attribution process is a lot of fun for me and really adds to my enjoyment of collecting the coins. This is the first one I grabbed out of the bag of unattributed bronze Greek coins I bought from Forvm that just arrived. To put a plug in for Joe, I am super happy with this lot, all the coins in it are nice.

Regards,
Virgil

Offline Virgil H

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Re: Skepsis SNG Ashmol 1194/SNG Cop 475?
« Reply #3 on: January 04, 2021, 10:54:13 am »
Just to add, I started with that SNG site, but my searches were not turning up anything. I need to learn how to use that database search more efficiently.
Thanks again

Offline esnible

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Re: Skepsis SNG Ashmol 1194/SNG Cop 475?
« Reply #4 on: January 04, 2021, 10:41:01 pm »
I have a hardcover SNG CopenhagenSNG Cop 473 through 486 are all bronze coins with the forepart of a winged horse and a fir tree.

Some of them face left, some right, some have tiny symbols such as thunderbolt, cornucopia, thrysos, kantharos, and cow skull.  Weights vary between 1.01g and 6.90g.  The numbers refer to specific coins in a museum in Denmark.

You might write "SNG Cop 473-486".  Being more specific is tricky unless your coin is similar in weight and has exactly the same symbol as the Copenhagen example.

Offline Tom Mullally

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Re: Skepsis SNG Ashmol 1194/SNG Cop 475?
« Reply #5 on: January 04, 2021, 10:47:40 pm »
I would also recommend subscribing to an online database such as CoinArchives or ACSearch.  They are sales record databases of all the major auction houses, it's typically quite easy to find your coin there.

Tom
Tom Mullally

Classical Numismatic Group

Offline Virgil H

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Re: Skepsis SNG Ashmol 1194/SNG Cop 475?
« Reply #6 on: January 04, 2021, 11:32:15 pm »
Thank you Esnible and Tom,
I got the SNG Cop 475 from the Wildwinds listing where the two were equivalent. I assumed they were the same coin in two different museums. I am assuming I should have verified both before using it. Or possibly my subject was misleading. Is there a preferred SNG number to use if there are more than one? I created an account in ACSearch, so thank you for that suggestion. I will check out CoinArchives, as well.

Virgil

Offline Pekka K

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Re: Skepsis SNG Ashmol 1194/SNG Cop 475?
« Reply #7 on: January 05, 2021, 02:16:53 am »

You find list of SNG's here: https://www.forumancientcoins.com/numiswiki/view.asp?key=Sylloge%20Nummorum%20Graecorum

Each volume has numbering beginning from 1, so reference "SNG Cop 475" without mention of volume may be over 40 different coins.

Wildwinds leaves this mention to the preamble of its tables.

Pekka K

Offline Virgil H

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Re: Skepsis SNG Ashmol 1194/SNG Cop 475?
« Reply #8 on: January 05, 2021, 11:45:58 am »
Thank you Pekka, that makes sense. That explains why I found what I thought were errors when it was actually probably different volumes.

Offline Altamura

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Re: Skepsis SNG Ashmol 1194/SNG Cop 475?
« Reply #9 on: January 05, 2021, 01:29:41 pm »
The SNG volumes are all catalogs of collections where each coin in the collection is shortly described and pictured. Each coin has it's own number. Usually you have no detailed comments e.g. about the history of the coinage of a city or region, you just have the coins.
If a collection comprises several specimens of one single coin type (which means more or less the same motifs and nearly the same weight) then all these coins are described and pictured, each with it's own number.

Some of the SNG volumes describe parts of publicly owned collections like the British Museum in London or the Cabinet des Médailles of the Bibliothèque nationale de France in Paris. Sometimes they are digitized now and can be found online, but there are also SNG volumes of private collections which sometimes even don't exist anymore (e.g. SNG van Aulock).
The collection in Copenhagen described in SNG Cop is only in parts available online (and only in Danish :)):
https://samlinger.natmus.dk/objectbrowse?media=image,rotation&keyword=M%C3%B8nt

In contrast to that there are reference books which are type catalogs. These try to gather all coin types from a certain city, ruler, time etc., no matter in which collections these coins can be found. Usually (but not always) the type is the entity getting a number, with references to collections or other reference works where specimens of a type can be found. An example is the book by Martin Jessop Price, "The Coinage in the Name of Alexander the Great and Philip Arrhidaeus", London 1991.

The online ressources are by now manifold and all in some aspects different :-\. Especially for the search functions you find many variations, you have to become acquainted how to use them in each single case  :(.

Regards

Altamura


Offline Virgil H

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Re: Skepsis SNG Ashmol 1194/SNG Cop 475?
« Reply #10 on: January 05, 2021, 02:14:20 pm »
Altamura,
Thank you for that amazing explanation. I have a lot of work to do, but it is fun work.

Virgil

 

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