FORVM`s Classical Numismatics Discussion Board
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The Members' Gallery => Topic started by: Enodia on September 09, 2010, 04:43:25 pm
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with so much discussion recently about coins with owls i thought it might be fun to collect them all in one place. there certainly are quite a few types out there.
i'll start with my own humble contribution, but i know you guys have some beautiful owls in your collections, so let's see 'um!
Soloi, Cilicia - 3rd-2nd Century BC, AE20.
Head of Athena right, wearing crested Corinthian helmet.
Owl standing right, head facing.
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I will post the reverse of one of my coins, 'cause I am really inspired by the 'stupid' charm some 4th century owls has to offer.
Look at this one below.
I feel sympathy for those cute, stupid looking birds. They need our help ;D. Joe has got a new bunch of these here https://www.forumancientcoins.com/catalog/roman-and-greek-coins.asp?vpar=66&pos=11
I feel envy 'cause many of them are a bit more foolish looking than mine.
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Nice Owls Peter and rover1.3, i have to agree that though not the most artistic rendering, there is a certain charm to the 4th century Owls. I can't wait to have one for myself.
Here's an Owl from my collection, one that i am very proud to own as i never thought i could afford one without a test cut going through the Owl's head or body.
I am currently looking for a particular Salamis mint Ptolemy VI Tet that has a nice little Owl on the reverse. I have only seen a couple examples, one sold here on Forum a while back, but hard to find otherwise.
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This thread will soon house the parliament of Athens if no one else provides other types ;D
(https://www.forumancientcoins.com/gallery/albums/userpics/14972/greek46.jpg)
(https://www.forumancientcoins.com/gallery/albums/userpics/14972/athe.jpg)
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(https://www.forumancientcoins.com/gallery/albums/userpics/12015/vcoin1616LG.jpg)
(https://www.forumancientcoins.com/gallery/albums/userpics/12015/152481LG.jpg)
(https://www.forumancientcoins.com/gallery/albums/userpics/12015/103002.jpg)
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We need some volunteers to clean the chicken pen. ;D I offer myself.
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Only Athenian birds in my avery
Asklepios New Style c 135 BC
Quiver & Bow New style c 109 BC
Mass Classic Owl c 450- 404 BC
Twit Twoo!
Cicerokid
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yep, i knew we had some beautiful owls here.
rover is correct i think, in that the intermediate owls have a certain 'cartoonish' charm that is hard to resist.
Mihali, that is one spectacular bird!
Minos, your New Style looks like it has carnelians set into the eyes. this one and cicerokids first image are both realy cool.
and i'm glad ecoli has finally introduced an often overlooked Magna Graecian type.
and speaking of which, the only other owl i have is a small one from this Tarantine didrachm of the 3rd century...
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My Egyptian owl....
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and my unfortunately faceless (softly struck) Bactrian owl....
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I don't have any silver owls but I do have this little Ae-
Head of Antiochus VIII, with ray diademed to right
Owl on recumbant amphora
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I, too, have found that I was lacking in owl's! In fact, other than a worn bronze, I didnt have one coin with an owl on it! Didn't being the key word... ;)
This guy is not yet in hand, and the pic is the dealers, but I am really looking forward to it! (and getting a freakin size and weight, sheesh, some dealers!) Anyway, I bought it as an uncleaned philisto imitation of an athenian owl. I'll post better pics when I recieve it! :)
Chris
PS An imitation owl fits more in with my freak show collection anyway! to heck with a pretty one! lol
C.
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Anyway, I bought it as an uncleaned philisto imitation of an athenian owl. I'll post better pics when I recieve it! :)
Is the coin above the worn bronze you say you have?
I wasn't informed for the existence of Philisto owl imitations on bronze.At least for the Gaza mint. I only knew of the silver coins,drachms,fourrée drachms and those frequently squared flan obols, and obol fractions. Am i missing something? What about the obverse?
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lol...I don't remember saying bronze! ;D No, it's suppose to be AR. If you look closely, there is shiny silver showing through at the 12oclock and toned showing through around the 7oclock. :)
Chris
PS I didnt show the ob due to crapped up dealer pics, but here it is...I will wait until it is in hand to decide on whether or not to clean.
C.
PPS - sorry for junking up this nice thread with my crappy owl!
c.
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I, too, have found that I was lacking in owl's! In fact, other than a worn bronze, I didnt have one coin with an owl on it!
I thought that this one on the photo was the worn bronze you said you have. :)
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This is the only half-decent wol I have, a 7mm half-obol from Gaza.
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PPS - sorry for junking up this nice thread with my crappy owl!
c.
not at all Chris, we wanna see these too. part of the reason i posted this was to see the variation of styles, and your coin moves that idea right along.
what i think i'm starting to see is a variation between the classical western owls and the newer and/or eastern owls (other than the imitations), and i'm wondering if we are actually seeing a variety of species.
the chart below comes from this site...
http://www.greeceathensaegeaninfo.com/a-eco-tourism/birds-owls-types.jpg
form this i think we can see the similarities between the squat eastern owls (ie; my Soloi and Robin's Antiochus) and the 'new style' tets of Athens, which look to me to be distinctly different from the taller owls of the classical Athenian tets. perhaps these eastern owls are the Athena Owls from the chart, but i'm not sure i can identify the classical type.
or maybe this entire train of thought is skewed? chime in folks!
~ Peter
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Drawn like that, Athena's owl looks very much like the Little Owl, though doubtless there are other similar species.
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The Little Owl (Athene noctua) is the most ordinary owl type live in Athens. For that reason, I guess that this is the owl depicted on Athenian coinage.
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cute picture!
so rover, are you saying that they are all the same species? that just the artistic rendering is different? this is certainly a possibilty i had considered, and like i suggested above, perhaps i'm just reading too much into this.
also, i noticed the owl in your avatar has horns, but i don't see that in any of the coins. i admit that the horned owl looked like the most likely candidate for the classical tets, except for the horns.
~ Peter
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cute picture!
so rover, are you saying that they are all the same species? that just the artistic rendering is different? this is certainly a possibilty i had considered, and like i suggested above, perhaps i'm just reading too much into this.
also, i noticed the owl in your avatar has horns, but i don't see that in any of the coins. i admit that the horned owl looked like the most likely candidate for the classical tets, except for the horns.
~ Peter
Who knows? Maybe you are right. I guess we need an ornithologist/numismatist here to answer this.
About the horned owl on the avatar, I thought that those horns was the 'artistic extra', something like the signature of the artist made this.
Now I see that the 'horned' owl is an existing owl type..
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I think it is the idea of an owl in the Platonic Sense.
Best regards
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Perhaps this Parliament is the opportune place to ask a question.
I seek an answer, from some 'wise owl'. Why does this owl, on this borrowed picture below, carry the tools of Osiris, the flail and and scepter ( or reaping hook?). Is it symbolic of a guardian of the grain by controlling mice?
tks and regards
cr
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The Domitian may not count but I threw it in anyway. I think the Calciatti is my favorite, it's certainly the rarest of my owls.
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Yes, of course the Domitian counts.
I guess since Minerva is the roman Athena then the Owl is her attribute too, and I got 2 of these types, one of which is in my 12 Caesars gallery.
I had completely forgot about it and it is not the best but I did buy it for the Owl
and the "skiff" (?) both are standing on.
Cicerokid
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I don't have much of interest in terms of owls.... especially in the company of some of those illustrated above. An uncut owl is on my wish list but is beyond my current means...
My Athenian owl has suffered a test cut through the head.
(https://www.forumancientcoins.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10618/Athens1a_img.jpg)
My Egyptian imitative has managed to avoid that fate.
(https://www.forumancientcoins.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10618/Egypt1a_img.jpg)
Martin
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Why does this owl, on this borrowed picture below, carry the tools of Osiris, the flail and and scepter ( or reaping hook?). Is it symbolic of a guardian of the grain by controlling mice?
hannibal2
Read here.You will probably get an answer.
http://books.google.gr/books?id=WoSX0tvxA08C&pg=PA100&lpg=PA100&dq=tyre+phoenician+owl&source=bl&ots=DHyrvjnRwW&sig=CqwsS7Lah2hH6aqZOMDefLNLLHY&hl=el&ei=TqqMTJOfOISPOLPruboK&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=5&ved=0CCwQ6AEwBA#v=onepage&q=tyre%20phoenician%20owl&f=false
Lloyd
Those imitations are great examples and very desirable types..Congratulations,and thank you for sharing.Please show us the obverses,too.(if possible..)
Martin
nice couple!Your Egyptian owl is a perfect coin for comparison i think.
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There are plenty of horned owl species. I remember Short-Horned Owls breeding on the moors above where I lived in Cornwall. It would be a question of trying to decide which owls were drawn from life - I have no problem believing that in the case of Athens owls - and which were simply copied. I don't suppose my Gaza specimen, for instance, represents any actual owl.
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Here's one of my few owls:
Athens, Attica
350 - 262 B.C.
Bronze AE13
2.70 gm, 13 mm
Obv.: Head of Athena right wearing crested Corinthian helmet
Rev.: Owl standing right, head facing, wings closed, A to left, Θ to right, all within corn wreath
Sear 2565; BMC 11, p.22, 22
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And here is my other one:
Velia, Lucania
350 – 300 B.C.
Bronze Æ 14
1.91 gm, 14 mm
Obv.: Head of young Herakles right,
wearing lion's skin
Rev.: Owl standing right on olive branch,
head facing, olive leaves right, ΥEΛH to left
BMC 1 p.317, 124; Sear 647
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Lloyd
Those imitations are great examples and very desirable types..Congratulations,and thank you for sharing.Please show us the obverses,too.(if possible..)
Thanks and I am more than happy to oblige with the obverses (below). I was very fortunate to acquire the long lusted after Egyptian owl, even with the punch marks and wear, it is a hard type to come by. As for the Bactrian owl...even more difficult to find in any condition. The Egyptian owl throws up a few issues, which I am still working on after several years - https://www.forumancientcoins.com/board/index.php?topic=22245.0 By the way, if you have one in the name of Mazakes and are looking to offload it, then then give me a call.
Also I attached my Athenian owl, my pride and joy, which started my geographic owl obsession. Not to say I didn't fall in love with Athena's Mona Lisa like smile (at least that is what I think the Mona Lisa smile would look like in profile).
Just don't get me started on eagles, yet another obsession, which is far from complete.
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Here's my ragged little owl collection. Includes a deka reproduction, a tet w/ test cuts, a nice little drachm, hemis, and an Eastern obol.
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We need some volunteers to clean the chicken pen. ;D I offer myself.
Come on guys! I know it's a dirty job, but someone's gotta do it! :angel:
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Thank you Rover1.3, that was super; turbocharged too.
cr
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Another half of them thrown to the chicken pen. ;D
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Hi cicerokid!
The 'skiff' actually is the upper end of a columna rostrata with swane neck shaped prora on both sides and the statue of Minerva upon it. The column is decorated with a relief showing a group of figures with different explanations:
(1) evtl. Pax std. r. with scepter, before her seated captive. (Curtis Clay)
(2) Jupiter std. r., before him kneeling worshipping person (Alex from FAC)
(3) Domitian std. r., before him captive kneeling (Barry Murphy)
This is type #2 of the 4 Minerva types on denars of Domitian.
Best regards
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Hi Jochen,
Thank you for the information, most informative.
Regards
Cicerokid
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Here is an unusual-ish one from my owl collection.
AE19 of Bruttium, Vibo Valentia AE Triens. Ca 192-89 BC. 4.66g, 19mm.
Head of Athena right, wearing crested Corinthian helmet, earring and necklace, four dots behind.
VALENTIA, owl standing right, head facing, four dots to right.
Ref. BMC 20; SNG Cop 1850; Sear 662.
Grabbed from Roma Numismatics within minutes of it being put in his online shop :)
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And here is a truly unusual object.
Obv: classical Athena's owl
Rev: dodo standing right, two stylized letters, an S and an M.
70 mm (2.75" :o) in diameter, quite thick and heavy.
Another, identical one was sold on ebay in November 2009, obviously from the same cast. It was bought by Reid Goldsborough. Reid did some research into these objects and has discovered that they were part of a promotion by Proctor & Gamble Co. for Crest toothpaste given to dentists in the late 1960s.
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A couple of owls that joined their coin at a later date:
The Persian sigloi are known for having countermarks but few are as cute as this owl. I always liked the owl on the Pergamon snake because it was placed to look like it was swallowed and we are seeing the xray.
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wow Doug, you sure do find them!
here's one from my collection that
i had forgotten about, from Hyria in Campania;
AR Didrachm (21mm, 7.31g)
400-335 BC
Head of Athena right, wearing wreathed Attic helmet decorated with an owl.
Man-headed bull walking right; 'YPIN[A]' above.
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Hello all,
I took Rover1.3's advice, at the top of this thread, and liberated one of Joe's owls. Much thanks to Joe and the rest of the Forvm staff for making these fine treasures available to us! And also for the layaway plan ;D
I'm quite taken with this intermediate style! Not so much for the design of the owl (though it does seem to be a little less"Startled" :o than some others), but more for the rendering of Athena. Her expression is quite pleasing, even "Haunting"! I think the banker's mark adds to the overall appeal ( it sort of reminds me of face painting). And of course it adds to the historical interest.
Speaking of historical interest, Doug, that Silver Siglos of yours is quite impressive!!! (if only that little owl could talk) ;D Do you know the origin of any of those marks?
Coin description:
Athens, Greece, Eye-in-Profile Style Pi Type Tetradrachm, c. 347 - 294 B.C.
43389. Silver tetradrachm, SNG München 94, SNG Delepierre 1477, SNG Cop 64 var, gVF, banker's mark, 16.358g, 22.8mm, 225o, obverse head of Athena right with eye seen in true profile, wearing crested helmet ornamented with three olive leaves and floral scroll; reverse owl standing right, head facing, to right AQE in large lettering, to left olive sprig and crescent; nicely centered on a very tight round flan.
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Hello all,
I took Rover1.3's advice, at the top of this thread, and liberated one of Joe's owls.
In case you ever regret it, i will buy this back ;). It is stunning.
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Now for something different.. a selection of Lucanian and Calabrian owls...sadly none are in my collection.
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Now I want one of these... with exactly this angry and threatening owl...it says don't mess with the owl!
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i started this thread in the Members forum so we could see the coins from our own collections.
however i realised right away that this would eventually expand further to include all owl coins.
i'm only sorry that Lloyd beat me to the MGs!
here is another from Velia, this time a bronze with wings spread (not in my collection,
but currently listed online)...
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the Domitian denarius shown above doesn't actually have an owl, but this beautiful and interesting republican denarius does, albeit a rather abstract one. again, i don't own this coin, it is currently listed in
an auction, but it is quite different than anything else posted so far, and a new type for me.
L. Valerius Asisculus, circa 34 BC...
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The owl on Jochen's Domitian is right at feet of Minerva.
The owl with head of Minerva, shield and spears (why two of them?) on the republican denarius is fascinating. At first sight it looked more like an eagle to me, but an owl definately makes more sense in combination with Minerva.
Stefan
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it looks more like a Dr. Suess character to me.
warriors would usually go into battle with two spears, and it is a common theme on coins (see the Tarantine didrachms for an example).
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(https://www.forumancientcoins.com/moonmoth/coins/pics/repub/repub_052.jpg)
An owl as a control mark on a Republican denarius of M. Volteius M.f.
Bill
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An owl as a control mark on a Republican denarius of M. Volteius M.f.
Bill
Five more Republican owls:
1. The owl quinarius published by Scott Rottinghaus (still as of today, unique and lonely)
2. A related denarius
3. Teate quadrans
4. Silver Sestertius of Antius Restio
5. Vibo Valentia Triens
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I have just the two owls, both recent additions to my collection. I have a bog standard Athenian tet and my other is on this Tarantine stater I've just added today!
Adrian
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Here is my latest owl, an earlier "New Style" owl of 149/8 BC issue 16.
I think owls are solitary by nature but my ones seem to like company.
Cicerokid
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... this Tarantine stater I've just added today!
this is an interesting coin Adrian.
while seemingly Vlasto 836, which is definitely NOT scarce (one of the most common types actually), the DE to left (above the horses raised leg) makes it a little more ambiguous. it surely falls somewhere between Vlasto 834 and 841, but i really don't think it can be ANS 1165 (no DE).
in my rather vast file of these coins i can only find two others like it, and on one of those the letters are very faint and questionable.
all things considered i don't think 'scarce' is an inappropriate designation.
nice coin! :)
~ Peter
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... this Tarantine stater I've just added today!
this is an interesting coin Adrian.
while seemingly Vlasto 836, which is definitely NOT scarce (one of the most common types actually), the :Greek_Delta:E to left (above the horses raised leg) makes it a little more ambiguous. it surely falls somewhere between Vlasto 834 and 841, but i really don't think it can be ANS 1165 (no DE).
in my rather vast file of these coins i can only find two others like it, and on one of those the letters are very faint and questionable.
all things considered i don't think 'scarce' is an inappropriate designation.
nice coin! :)
~ Peter
Thanks for the info! I just pasted the sellers description of the coin so I had no idea about the rarety of the piece. I've been looking at getting one of these staters for a while and when I saw this one I fell for the owl and decided I had to have it.
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my pleasure! it's not often i get to discuss my favorite area here. 8)
however i think "didrachm", or possibly "nomos" would be a more proper denomination. Stater is often used generically but doesn't really fit, especially with these Period VIII coins from the time of the Roman Alliance. the standard Tarantine drachm of this period (the ones with the beautiful owl reverse) are typically somewhere under 3.5g, so didrachm is more accurate, i think.
~ Peter
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at this point i think this topic would do better in the Greek Coins forvm. could it be moved there please?
~ Peter
thank you Robert! :)
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I know that this topic is now in the Greek coin area but I thought that I would share a Greek owl and a small Roman Imperial owl...
Firstly my Eye in profile, Athens owl...
(https://www.forumancientcoins.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10618/Athens_1b_img.jpg)
Secondly a Marcus Aurelius Sestertius, Minerva standing left holding owl and spear; shield at left side
(https://www.forumancientcoins.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10618/RI_051o_img.jpg)
Regards,
Martin
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My 'glorious' one. :)
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I was just going through this and realized that I never posted the cleaned picture of my little guy. I think that it turned out nicely. (even if the attribution is a bit problematic) :)
Chris
Palestine, Gaza mint, Attic standard Municipal coinage, Late 5th-mid 4th century B.C. AR, 15x11mm 3.72g, Mildenberg, Gaza 7
O: Head of Athena right, wearing crested Attic helmet decorated with three olive leaves over visor and a spiral palmette on the bowl, Aramaic mem on cheek
R: AQE, owl standing right, head facing; olive sprig and crescent behind; all within incuse square.
http://www.acsearch.info/record.html?id=57541
OR
Athens, Attica mint, Drachm Ca.350 B.C. AR, 15x11mm 3.72g, Svor. Pl.21.40
O: Head of Athena r., eye in profile, wearing helmet decorated with olive leaves and palmette
R: Owl standing r., head facing, AQE to r., olive spray and crescent to l.
http://www.acsearch.info/record.html?id=99379
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And here is my star of the recent post on the members gallery: OH NO! Not another boring stephanophore in Cicerokid's gallery.
It is issue 14, 151/0 BC minted in the 6th month as denoted by the Z on the amphora, but no quality control marks because they only came in on the next issue 15, according to Mattingley.
No idea yet who the 2 magistrates are until Thompson arrives from the British Library.
Cicerokid
PS
I have yet again looked at Microsoft Paintbox , ( which came on my 6 year old PC) but still have not a clue how to just remove the background from the coin nevermind stitch obverse & reverse together-sorry.
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I spent half an hour putting together a tutorial just for you in another of your threads how to do this with the free program Irfanview so you can't claim you don't know how.
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I spent half an hour putting together a tutorial just for you in another of your threads how to do this with the free program Irfanview so you can't claim you don't know how.
I can't say no one saw mine because it has 378 views listed and only half of them could be me visiting while I was writing it. Of course there are a hundred different programs that can do this an I'm not familiar (or interested) with all.
I commend your effort to show how using Ifranview but we should be happy when a posted photo is a reasonable size and trimmed to the point that the coin takes up half of the frame.
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I have taken what has been said on board but some people don't make an adequate allowance people's differing skill levels, prior knowledge, competence, nuance, patience & time.
I work as a lowly drone at a university and no lecturer can apparently follow simple instructions on how to use the air conditioner/ heater other than to open the windows or to ask for portable heaters!
It took me ages to learn how to down load pictures, I still often fail because the file is too big and I am no technical photographer neither.
At the moment am trying to download , copy onto a word document and manipulate the early New Style monograms from the Numiswiki SNG Attica page.
Nightmare but I shall endeavor .
Cicerokid
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so this becomes yet one more interesting thread which i can barely open because of unnecessarily MASSIVE files... terrific. >:(
and i don't understand why. the 'before' picture looks just as good at 87k (better actually, since the coin isn't overcleaned, but that's just my opinion) as the 'after' at over 1500k.
frustratedly,
~ Peter
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Cicerokid,
I dont think you have to apologize on the board about your skills on computers.
We discuss coins here, my personal opinion is that your coins are fantastic, and i really don't mind if you choose to post the photos stitched or unstitched.
You really don't have to worry about unimportant things like "stitched" or "unstitched" photographs. Do as you like.
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That's a very nice tet, Cicerokid. Amazing condition. Congratulations.
BTW, as moderator of the board, I resized the pic in this thread to make it easier to load.
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Thanks Dino, quite right.
I have just learnt how to do so with cropped images.
So no more big downloads in future
Cicerokid
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not as nice as some of the examples shown earlier in this thread, still this is a Tarentine owl which i was finally able to add to my collection a few months ago.
https://www.forumancientcoins.com/gallery/displayimage.php?pos=-75311
~ Peter
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Hello,
Peter, that's a lovely example I haven't encountered before.
Here's my very own wisdom (*) of rather bedraggled owls, all have had violence done to them! I must find the time to do some research (beginning with Reid Goldsborough's excellent website) on their ancestry...perhaps some are imitatives?
Derek
* An amusing alternative to parliament as a collective noun, apparently.
P.S.: Oddly cropped to reduce size/increase compressibility, per earlier thread. Can be clicked for higher resolution.
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I must find the time to do some research (beginning with Reid Goldsborough's excellent website) on their ancestry...perhaps some are imitatives?
At first glance, i see nothing imitative here, just some 4th century BC, oblong, countermarked Athenian owls, along with others.
You can make some new photos for each piece, (obverse/reverse), if you like, and post them on the identification board to get a precise classification.
Please, don't forget to add the weight for each piece, don't forget to post only one coin per thread.
best regards,
rover
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Here's my very own wisdom (*) of rather bedraggled owls, all have had violence done to them!
Bedraggled, beaten and bruised, but still beguiling! A nice montage of battered beauties.
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Yes, very nice and numerous collection! I too would be interested to see the obv. sides at some point :)
Thanks for sharing!
~Steve
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Rover, Lloyd, Steve, thanks for the comments. I've attached a picture of the obverses as Steve asked.
Per the terminology at Mr. Goldsborough's site:
http://rg.ancients.info/owls/
the tetradrachms on the top row are all Intermediate Style owls (haven't yet attempted to classify further)
with a classical (?) drachm, a Classical Owl (type A given the more obvious incuse square? I confess I haven't delved into the subtleties of Athena's portraiture), and two other Intermediate Style owls. I've seen some similar intermediates described as "Pi types" given the pattern of the scroll on Athena's helmet.
For those who are interested, the tets on the top row weigh:
17.2g 17.15g 17.13g
respectively and those on the bottom weigh
3.74g (drachm) 16.96g (Classical) 17.18g and 17.19g respectively. As is no doubt obvious to the owl cognoscenti, the Classical owl, despite having a noticeably larger diameter, has a thinner flan, and weighs a couple of centigrams less, possibly in part due to the severe deformation (and loss of mass?) from the violent test cut. Thankfully, in this case the test cutter chose not to bisect the owl. (Which I understand may have been done because the owl's beak was among the thickest portions of the flan).
Amazing feeling looking at these, and contemplating whose hands they may have passed through over the years. The rightmost intermediate-style owl on the bottom row has a strange crystalline encrustation on the reverse that I've asked for suggestions on before over at the cleaning board--careful application of lemon juice+distilled water was suggested. I have not yet had time to experiment, am hopefully looking forward to seeing the owl awaiting underneath.
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I'd love to have this owl in my aviary .....
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An Owl Countermark
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I'd love to have this owl in my aviary .....
Yes, a very desirable coin!
An Owl Countermark
One of my favorite countermarks! That I don't have BTW ::)
Thanks to you both for sharing!
~Steve
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It was somewhat difficult to get these normally solitary aves together.
All have differing personalities some are large some are small, some are thin and some are not so thin.
Some are primadonnas, some are more down to earth.
When I got a line up just about right I would find that there had been a squabble and some had gone out of position, but in the end I got there.
20 Athenian New Style tetradrachms : Now this is a parliament of owls!
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Wow, thats quite a collection :o All very nice examples! They each seem to be of different mints/moneyers as well!
An impressive photo of the group!
Thanks for sharing!
~Steve
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Collective nouns can be fun. Do you think this grouping might be an attic of owls?
Matt
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an attic of owls?
;D
Joe has in the past reminded us that 'smileys' are of no especial numismatic value when considering the quality of an individual's posts. But sometimes only a smiley will do!
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What about this coin?
2.13g
Does it look like a contemporary forgery?
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The gold hemidrachm? This 2.13g coin sold in the January 2012 New York Sale as lot #374.
It is looks rather official, but crude. I wonder if it is actually a part of the Lachares issues of c. 295 BC.
Gold was not regularly issued at Athens. I am not aware of any Unofficial Issues.
Why do you ask?
Matt
"What about this coin?
2.13g
Does it look like a contemporary forgery?"
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I have some one I didn't see posted...By the way gorgeous owls everyone.
Pergamum, Mysia, AE 16, BC 200-100
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Ionia, Priene - AE 20
150-125 BC
helmeted head of Athena right
facing owl standing on amphora, star above pileus on both sides (symbol of Castor and Polydeuces)
ΠPI_H
AXIΛΛEI / ΔHΣ
REGLING PRIENE 166/167; SNG AUL 2156
6,02g 20-18 mm
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Ionia, Priene - AE 17
290-170 BC
helmeted head of Athena right
facing owl standing on amphora over palm branch
ΠPIH on left
ΔIONY / ΣIOY to right
BMC 50, SG 4554 var.
7,58g 16 mm
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Great upturned amphora owls.
Rover & I certainly swapped ideas on the meaning of this coin type and its copying of the New Style.
I speculated that it had maybe got something to do with a Prienian winner of a parallel panathanaic competition open to all Greeks.
Also the Seleucids, Grypos and Thea produced a similar Ae and around the same time.
But I don't think we ever got any substences to the speculations..any ideas?
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Another point, that the Ae17 above has the dating of 290 -170 .Not only is very broad but also on the latest evidence precedes the New Style silver coinage of Athens, whose start date is now confidently stated to be 164/3 BC. ( Mattingley, Habicht & Meadows et al).
Are these coins in Seleucid Coins by Houghton & Lorber ? I can only guess that the dates have been or need revising.
I shall have to go to the university library and have a look sometime.
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Another point, that the Ae17 above has the dating of 290 -170 .Not only is very broad but also on the latest evidence precedes the New Style silver coinage of Athens, whose start date is now confidently stated to be 164/3 BC. ( Mattingley, Habicht & Meadows et al).
Are these coins in Seleucid Coins by Houghton & Lorber ? I can only guess that the dates have been or need revising.
I shall have to go to the university library and have a look sometime.
I don't have the book but I think only Royal Seleukid issues are included.
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Date of the first coin is from Isegrim because I haven't found this variation (with star over pileus on both sides) anywhere else. Wildwinds says 150-120 BC for variant with leaves on sides.
Second coin has date from wildwinds. I agree it very suspicious that coins with one magistrate were struck 120 years but I haven't found more accurate attribution.
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this is my latest addition to the flock...
https://www.forumancientcoins.com/gallery/displayimage.php?pos=-89379
a very rare left-facing owl on a Tarentine drachm.
~ Peter
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This parliament gets bigger and bigger.Plenty of room for new comers yet and there is a flurry of feathers cos there is a rumour that another is on the way!
Cic
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A few of my favorite owls.
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i just love this topic owls are just such beautiful creatures and so well depicted thankyou for posting +++ +++ +++
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I received this coin in a mix of uncleaned Greeks yesterday, and I love it already...
I have no idea what it will clean up to be, if anything, but the counter mark is cool!
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A Parliament of 37 owls. I would call it an Athenian parliament of owls but it nearly caused a riot of feather pulling because three of the darlings are well, not Athenian.
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A Parliament of 37 owls. I would call it an Athenian parliament of owls but it nearly caused a riot of feather pulling because three of the darlings are well, not Athenian.
Now that is what I call "Owl Power"! Dare I say it, more collected wisdom there than any human parliament on earth today!
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A Parliament of 37 owls. I would call it an Athenian parliament of owls but it nearly caused a riot of feather pulling because three of the darlings are well, not Athenian.
Which three? I'd love to see an edited photo with red arrows to the three foreign-born owls with a comment as to how the foreign owls differ.
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Row 4 , 2nd from the right, the recent Cicada imitation I wrote up very recently.
The other two on on the last row both end coins. I have written on the Left coin under Aetolia- Roma on both Forum and academia.edu, earlier this year, the other, now that I have a complete Thompson confirms my original thoughts that it is an imitation. I shall be writing on this one soon, most interesting and perplexing it is too.
Generally the style is OFF when compared to Athenian example , lots of dots , the cut of the letters, the owl often has goggle eyes, die axis shifts from 12 o'clock or just after. The Athena's hair is lank and the faces more pinched. The detail on the horse protomes and pegassos is not quite right.
Watch this space.
Thanks for the interest!
cic
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Hye!
My little contribution to the parliament
(http://www.upload-image.fr/images/2015/02/11/tetradrachme_chouette_athenes_1Ez4A.jpg)
449 / 430 BC
25,5mm / 17,16 grms ; coin axes 9h
Obverse: "Archaic style" head of Athena, wearing crested helmet ornamented with olive leaves and floral scroll.
Reverse: ΑΘΕ / Owl, olive twig, and crescent moon.
S. #2526.
best regards :branchesthreeleft:
Moneta Romana
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That is a fantastic example. Congratulations!
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EX FORVM Coin Shop :)
Sam
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WOWWWW That 's jewel too ! +++
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WOWWWW That 's jewel too ! +++
Grazie :)
So is yours.
Sam
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Nico , it is Spectacular .
Sam
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fascinating subject ! Thank you
all these coins are sublime !
Taras the test cut on your coin was well centered just between the eyes of the owl ...Symbolic !?
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Nico , it is Spectacular .
Sam
Thank you Sam, just like yours from Athens!
An increasingly lovely parliament indeed.
Bye :)
Nico
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Nico , it is Spectacular .
Sam
Thank you Sam, just like yours from Athens!
An increasingly lovely parliament indeed.
Bye :)
Nico
How ever it is hopeless for all of us to compete with Cicero :) :) :)
Man !! Cicero 's candidate would absolutely win. :) , Cicero got the majority of the parliament in his pocket ;D
Sam
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amazing style for the first owl !
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amazing style for the first owl !
WOW!!!
I'll say!!!
The best I have ever seen!
THANKS for sharing!
PeteB
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Two Tarentine owls from my collection.
Bye
Nico
Simply gorgeous owl !!!
I bet you there is an eagle involved sometimes in grandparents history :evil:
Sam
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Here's another one.
17.15 gm, 24 mm.
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...and here a specimen of which I am particularly proud,
and justifiably so. a beautiful and important coin, and one which would look perfectly at home in my cabinet! 8)
~ Peter
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indeed very cool, i love BC Ladies
cheers,
eric
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:)
Q.
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amazing style for the first owl !
amazing style for the first owl !
WOW!!!
I'll say!!!
The best I have ever seen!
THANKS for sharing!
PeteB
Two Tarentine owls from my collection.
Bye
Nico
Simply gorgeous owl !!!
I bet you there is an eagle involved sometimes in grandparents history :evil:
Sam
...and here a specimen of which I am particularly proud,
and justifiably so. a beautiful and important coin, and one which would look perfectly at home in my cabinet! 8)
~ Peter
LOL folks ;D
:)
Q.
Fascinating piece Q.!!!
Best
Nico
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Here, a little Domitian owl found during a family walk . No very good conservation but it's an owl who has her place in the parliament ;D !
(http://www.upload-image.fr/images/2015/02/04/dom.jpg)
Regarding Athen mass Classical owls tetra :
Per the terminology at Mr. Goldsborough's site:
http://coins.reidgold.com/owls/
How it can explain the chronological differences between Flament , Starr, Svoronos , and Reid Classifications ?
In my case, my tetra is dated by Reid between 431 and 393BC, but Starr place it between after 449 and 414 BC , Flament propose the last twenty years of the fifth century until 404 BC ( for Svoronos I understood that his datations was not update anymore )
Finally ,the distance seems important by comparing differents authors..
On which criteria bases himself each of them ?
If somebody could make a point on the last knowledge it would be good +++
(http://www.upload-image.fr/images/2015/02/11/tetradrachme_chouette_athenes_1Ez4A.jpg)
Moneta :branchesthreeleft: :branchesthreeright:
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A very rare Tyrian (Tyre) bronze, you might just be able to make out an Owl on the reverse. +++ ;D
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A few owls from my collection.
Athenian
Calciatti III
Calabria Tarentum
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An unusual Athenian owl from my collection with: :Aupsidedown: :Greek_epsilon: ,In bad shape but I love it!!!!
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Here are my 4 owls
a normal one, a Pi owl, a Hemidrachm, and a really grotty later AE Drachm
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"Low quality" is all relative, Nico. I think it's a charming coin. Here's the best from my nest:
ATTICA, Athens, AR "New Style" Tetradrachm. Α-ΘΕ / HPA / ΑΡΙ-ΣTΟΦ / ΕΠΙΣΤP. Thompson 339c; Svoronos (Corpus), pl. 45, no. 11
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An owl from Pergamon
AE 18, 3.08g
struck 200-133 BC (according to von Fritze)
obv. Head of Athena, wearing crested Attic helmet decorated with star, hair in curls to neck.
rev. Owl with open wings, stg. facing on palmbranch, head l.
above AQH - NAC, below NIKHFOROV
in l. and r. field P - D (magistrate?)
ref. BMC 133, 201; SNG Copenhagen cf.383; SNG von Aulock cf.1375
about VF, nice contrasts
This type is part of a greater series of coins struck in honour of Athena, tutelary deity of Pergamon. Issued possibly to celebrate various victories over the Galati and the Seleucids.
Best regards
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Jochen, you reminded me that I have an owl! I had totally forgotten about this one:
MYSIA, Pergamon. Circa 133-27 BC. Æ 19mm. Obv: Helmeted head of Athena right. Rev: Owl standing facing on palm frond. SNG France 1900-4.
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"Low quality" is all relative, Nico. I think it's a charming coin. Here's the best from my nest:
ATTICA, Athens, AR "New Style" Tetradrachm. Α-ΘΕ / HPA / ΑΡΙ-ΣTΟΦ / ΕΠΙΣΤP. Thompson 339c; Svoronos (Corpus), pl. 45, no. 11
Your Athenian owl is beautiful Carasius! Congratulations.
Nico
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Another owl I forgot I owned! This one was difficult to photograph because it is so small.
Athens, AE 10mm, .98g, c. 300 BC?. Obv: Athena in crested helm facing right; Rev: Owl standing left, facing. NISC.
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Not Athens: http://www.asiaminorcoins.com/gallery/displayimage.php?pid=9638
Pekka K
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Thanks, Pekka! That one has been sitting not fully attributed for years. I can't even remember where I got it!
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here is my latest nominee to parliament, a silver drachm from Taras fomerly in the M.P Vlasto collection.
https://www.forumancientcoins.com/gallery/displayimage.php?pos=-118944
i like the owl on this one, although his cocky look and slight tilt of the head seems to be mocking me, defying me to figure out what he is doing perched up there on that Ionic capital.
i examined his pellets to see what his feeding habits might have been, but all i found was traces of cash, my cash, and lots of it!
~ Peter
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Nice coins you have.
Here´s my favorite owl
Greek. Attica. Athens. (449-413 B.C.), Sear 2529, AR trihemiobol (10 mm diam, 1.1 gram), EF
Head of Athena right, wearing crested helmet, AθE.
Owl standing facing, wings spread, two olive-leaves above.
Coin is nice, much better in hand. I hope the reference is right Sear 2529
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This pretty owl :
(but only countermark :) )
Mysia, Pergamon, (200-0 B.C.), AE-17, SNG Cop-360, ΠERΓAMH, Nike walking right,
https://www.forumancientcoins.com/gallery/displayimage.php?pos=-120144
Regards
Q.
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"Low quality" is all relative, Nico. I think it's a charming coin. Here's the best from my nest:
ATTICA, Athens, AR "New Style" Tetradrachm. Α-ΘΕ / HPA / ΑΡΙ-ΣTΟΦ / ΕΠΙΣΤP. Thompson 339c; Svoronos (Corpus), pl. 45, no. 11
Certainly not a reverse die match.
Hopefully the page will down load from Thompson's plates
Cic
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"Low quality" is all relative, Nico. I think it's a charming coin. Here's the best from my nest:
ATTICA, Athens, AR "New Style" Tetradrachm. Α-ΘΕ / HPA / ΑΡΙ-ΣTΟΦ / ΕΠΙΣΤP. Thompson 339c; Svoronos (Corpus), pl. 45, no. 11
Certainly not a reverse die match.
Hopefully the page will down load from Thompson's plates
Cic
Hmmm. I'll have to check when I am home this evening. Either I transcribed my records incorrectly when I posted the photo here, or I attributed to the wrong die in my records. Either way, I will sort it out. Thanks, Cic !
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ATTICA, Athens, AR "New Style" Tetradrachm. Α-ΘΕ / HPA / ΑΡΙ-ΣTΟΦ / ΕΠΙΣΤP. Thompson 339c; Svoronos (Corpus), pl. 45, no. 11
Certainly not a reverse die match.
Hopefully the page will down load from Thompson's plates
Cic
Hmmm. I'll have to check when I am home this evening. Either I transcribed my records incorrectly when I posted the photo here, or I attributed to the wrong die in my records. Either way, I will sort it out. Thanks, Cic !
Glad to report that my records correctly described my above New Style tetradrachm as "Thompson 339c-h (same obverse die) and Svoronos, Pl. 45, no. 11 (same obverse die)"! I must have abbreviated the attribution when posting here which, inadvertently, gave the wrong impression that it was a full die match!
I've recently added the following owlet to my brood:
ATTICA, Athens, AR "New Style" Drachm. Thompson 141a (dies); Svoronos Pl. 34, 11-12; SNG Cop. 120-3 var (no letter); BMC 291-2 var (no letter). Thompson thought that this large drachm issue, bearing the grain ear symbol and no magistrate indicia, may have been related to a grain distribution to the Athenian people.
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Nice group Nico.. :) +++
Q.
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Two little owls from Gaza. The firt is 7mm and 0.29g, the second 9mm and 0.73g.
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Nice group Nico.. :) +++
Q.
i agree. i've been after one of these for quite some time now, but they are never available when i have money.
and Robert, i think the first one is terrific considering the size. nice!
~ Peter
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I finally captured one of my own! May have a splitting headache, but still nice in it's own way:
(https://www.forumancientcoins.com/gallery/albums/userpics/22729/normal_athens_33.jpg)
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What a wonderful and fascinating coin Nico, congratulations and thanks for sharing. +++
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Who can beat Nico , I even do not like to.
From our FORVM shop
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I recently added a classic Athenian owl to my collection. I splurged a bit but it is a very pleasing coin! Also here's another owl from Velia, as well as an issue from Herakleia with a small owl on the reverse.
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Not the best quality but...
024 Domitian (69-81 A.D. Caesar, 81-96 A.D. Augustus), AE-Quadrans, RIC II 008, RIC-New-, Rome, Owl standing half left,
Regards
Q.
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after an extended recess Parliament is back in session.
first on the agenda is this hemiobol from Athens which i received as a birthday present. it looks like a miniature tetradrachm and is quite a bit nicer than the image, especially the pygmy owl... ;)
https://www.forumancientcoins.com/gallery/displayimage.php?pos=-132172
next up are these two diobols from Taras, each with an owl sitting on the back of a lion, a more precarious position than being an actual Member of Parliament!
Athena right...
https://www.forumancientcoins.com/gallery/displayimage.php?pos=-132254
Athena left...
https://www.forumancientcoins.com/gallery/displayimage.php?pos=-132730
~ Peter
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here's one that recently perched on my doorstep...
https://www.forumancientcoins.com/gallery/displayimage.php?pos=-137483
this type is very reminiscent of the coins of Athens, which were probably the model upon which the engraver drew his inspiration. nothing like borrowed credibility for a new-found colony! 8)
Velia, Lucania
465-440 BC, AR Drachm
O: Head of nymph right, wearing beaded necklace.
R: Owl with closed wing perched right on olive branch, head facing; YEΛH behind.
~ Peter
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Very nice!
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Another lovely Owl Peter :) +++
Regards
Q.
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Mysia, Pergamon, BMC 201
AE 18, 3.08g
struck 200-133 BC (according to von Fritze)
obv. Head of Athena, wearing crested Attic helmet decorated with star, hair in curls to neck.
rev. Owl with open wings, stg. facing on palmbranch, head l.
above AQH - NAC, below NIKHFOROV
in l. and r. field P - D (magistrate?)
ref. BMC 133, 201; SNG Copenhagen cf.383; SNG von Aulock cf.1375
about VF, nice contrasts
This type is part of a greater series of coins struck in honour of Athena, tutelary deity of Pergamon. Issued possibly to celebrate various victories over the Galati and the Seleucids.
Best regards
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Hi Jochen,
I agree Your Owl from Mysia, Pergamon, are a great meber of "A Parliament of Owls" +++
Q.
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here's the two latest additions to my collection, both with owl reverses.
the first is a beautiful owl on a drachm from Herakleia...
https://www.forumancientcoins.com/gallery/displayimage.php?pos=-138339
and the next is a small and somewhat homely little owl on the reverse of this Tarentine diobol...
https://www.forumancientcoins.com/gallery/displayimage.php?pos=-138622
~ Peter
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My own humble contribution. I don't go out of my way to collect Greek but I couldn't resist this little fellow, even though he's a little scratchy (we all have our off days). It looks like there might be enough Mysian owls out there to set up a parliament particular to Pergamon
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here's the two latest additions to my collection, both with owl reverses.
the first is a beautiful owl on a drachm from Herakleia...
https://www.forumancientcoins.com/gallery/displayimage.php?pos=-138339
and the next is a small and somewhat homely little owl on the reverse of this Tarentine diobol...
https://www.forumancientcoins.com/gallery/displayimage.php?pos=-138622
~ Peter
Beautiful!
Also, your subject is very exciting 😊 , "A Nice Pair of Hooters "even though for less than a second.
I am here everyday !! How Can I not know we have something like that at our FORVM 😊. ;D
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*bump*
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https://www.forumancientcoins.com/catalog/roman-and-greek-coins.asp?vpar=1857&pos=0&open=1521#Birds
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This example is from Pontos, Amisos. The owl on my coin looks more like a skeletal bat...
Peter
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here's is my latest bird of the night, a silver drachm from Taras...
https://www.forumancientcoins.com/gallery/displayimage.php?pos=-146592
this coin has a lovely dark tone which just doesn't show up on the photo, more's the pity.
~ Peter
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Great piece:) +++
This is two of mine from Sicily, Kamarina:
https://www.forumancientcoins.com/gallery/displayimage.php?pos=-128528
https://www.forumancientcoins.com/gallery/displayimage.php?pos=-145456
Q.
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both holding lizards, cool!
I particularly like the bottom owl, but the top one has a great patina.
- Peter
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Thank you, +++
Q.
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Here's an Athenian owl I bought a few months ago, and which I'm very pleased with.
I'm posting here to revive this topic, so please add yours too. 🙂
https://www.forumancientcoins.com/gallery/displayimage.php?pid=168998
~ Peter
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Nice find, +++ ;) :)
Joe
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This one comes with a story...
Every Friday night for the past 10 years I have gone to a nearby wildlife reserve to look at the stars. The back road there passes La Chouette winery, whose logo is an owl (naturally).
A few weeks ago, right after I had ordered this coin I was passing the winery when I saw an owl just standing on the centerline, and he still just stood there as I drove by!
Must be a sign, right? 🙂
https://www.forumancientcoins.com/gallery/displayimage.php?pid=176934
~ Peter