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Author Topic: Bl follis of Constantine  (Read 421 times)

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Offline Mateusz W

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Bl follis of Constantine
« on: March 03, 2023, 07:52:56 pm »
It looks genuine, but its absolutely weird , it feels like it has around 15-20% silver content (very similar to Samosata 253-260 AD issues, same feeling when i keep it in my hand). Is this a contemporatory anomaly or could this be just a modern resilvered piece? 2.86g/20mm

Offline Curtis JJ

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Re: Bl follis of Constantine
« Reply #1 on: March 03, 2023, 07:59:29 pm »
Yeah, that's what they look like when re-silvered. At one point a long time ago I experimented to see how it works and how they come out. (It's a LOT easier than I would've thought.) This is what they look like using "the easy method." In my experience it wouldn't rub off easily, so you wouldn't be able to tell by soaking in acetone or anything (except for the fact that it doesn't look natural).

(I was awful at chemistry in school, so I don't know if it could be another white metal, like zinc, or if there is some chemical reaction that makes additional silver bond to billon/previously silvered coins more easily. Only an inordinately small amount of silver is needed so the expense is negligible.)
“Collect the collectors…” John W Adams’ advice to J Orosz (Asylum 38, 2: p51)

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Offline Lech Stępniewski

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Re: Bl follis of Constantine
« Reply #2 on: March 03, 2023, 08:42:23 pm »
Why do you think that it is not an authentic ancient silvering? It is quite possible. Judging from picture (which could be deceiving) there is nothing wrong.
Lech Stępniewski
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Offline Mateusz W

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Re: Bl follis of Constantine
« Reply #3 on: March 03, 2023, 08:46:02 pm »
Why do you think that it is not an authentic ancient silvering? It is quite possible. Judging from picture (which could be deceiving) there is nothing wrong.

is there any issue of early 4th century folles that cointained around 10-20% silver apart of very rare variants of pseudo argenteus coins?

Offline Lech Stępniewski

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Re: Bl follis of Constantine
« Reply #4 on: March 03, 2023, 09:03:27 pm »
that cointained around 10-20% silver

How this percent of silver was measured?
Lech Stępniewski
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Offline maridvnvm

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Re: Bl follis of Constantine
« Reply #5 on: March 04, 2023, 04:14:28 am »
I have a resilvered example from Lugdunum

Constantine the Great
Obv:– CONSTAN-TINVS AVG, Laureate bust right
Rev:–. VIRTVS EXERCIT, Two captives seated either side of banner inscribed VOT XX
Minted in Lugdunum (C R /PLG). A.D. 321
Reference:– Bastien XI 65. RIC VII Lugdunum 113 (R1)



They look "different" to ancient silvering

Offline Lech Stępniewski

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Re: Bl follis of Constantine
« Reply #6 on: March 04, 2023, 07:46:47 am »
They look "different" to ancient silvering

Is it possible to catch this difference on picture with high level of probability? An what do you think about coin in question?
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Offline Curtis JJ

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Re: Bl follis of Constantine
« Reply #7 on: March 04, 2023, 01:33:47 pm »
I agree with maridvnvm that the Lugdunum looks consistent with artificial silvering. (Great reverse details! Left captive looks like his arms are crossed, which is a bit unusual. Could the elbows be bound? Is that a belt or a waist restraint?)

Based just on my experience, things that make me suspicious about silvering:
Too uniform, even where it should've worn thin, no trace of luster (more "powdery"), no loss of silvering over surface porosity/roughness, silvering inside the flan cracks, too bright (though, of course, artificial silvering can be artificially toned).

I think any of those could appear on genuine silvering too, but they get my attention. It's also possible for any to be absent. I suspect that some use "silver leaf," which can give the appearance of mint luster.

I also see lots of Antoniniani (or Aurelianiani, I guess) that get me wondering. I have no idea how common it actually is. But it wouldn't surprise me if it's much more common than many of us realize.
This one from my "captives" gallery -- I could see it being ancient or modern silvering:

https://www.forumancientcoins.com/gallery/displayimage.php?pid=180880
Seller's photo: https://www.acsearch.info/search.html?id=7646286

In the following e-auction, the same seller (to their credit) described this one as "Artificially silvered" (and gave the same provenance as mine above):

https://www.acsearch.info/search.html?id=7854742

Here's one other from ACSearch, just in a quick search for auctions explicitly labeled as "artificial silvering":
https://www.acsearch.info/search.html?id=540200

EDIT: These search results give 11 more examples, using the term "resilvered" instead:
https://www.acsearch.info/search.html?term=resilvered

Only one listed prior sales. It had been photographed by 3 firms in ACSearch -- 2022, 2011, 2011. Not sure when the "resilvering" happened. The two older sales describe the silvering as original. The third definitely "looks" brighter, but maybe just lighting:
https://www.acsearch.info/search.html?id=9738917
https://www.acsearch.info/search.html?id=1105908
https://www.acsearch.info/search.html?id=1000651
“Collect the collectors…” John W Adams’ advice to J Orosz (Asylum 38, 2: p51)

Galleries https://www.forumancientcoins.com/gallery/index.php?cat=27154

 

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