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Author Topic: Tetricus I Scarce coin  (Read 697 times)

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Offline Flav V

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Tetricus I Scarce coin
« on: June 03, 2022, 06:29:46 am »
Hello,

This coin is a rare antoninian of Tetricus:

A/ IMP C TETRICVS P F AVG

R/ VIRTVS AVGG

The character on reverse as described on RIC V B should be turned left. But he is on right. I have a doubt it is an imiation. First the bust seems only radiate: K. Second there is a letter C? on the end legend, CAES? Third the style is close of imitative coins but the line between ''official'' and ''imitative'' is often really tight.

Offline Laurentius

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Re: Tetricus I Scarce coin
« Reply #1 on: June 03, 2022, 09:03:42 am »
Hello Flav V

That's correct, there is often little difference in style between the official and the imitation editions.
That mainly affects the reverses. But the obverses had the largest part a slightly more ornate look.

Another difference between official and imitation is the weight. The imitations often weighed over half less.
For comparison, a Tetricus I. from the Trier mint with 2,8 g. (RIC 148)

br Laurentius








Offline Flav V

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Re: Tetricus I Scarce coin
« Reply #2 on: June 04, 2022, 02:22:09 am »
The coin weigh is 1.60 but it lost a lot a metal i think. Thats why i dont know if its an imitative or not. Virtus reverse is so rare that it appear strange to find an imitation.

Offline Laurentius

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Re: Tetricus I Scarce coin
« Reply #3 on: June 04, 2022, 02:48:21 am »
Ok, the weight is okay. It's somewhere in between. Maybe a slightly lighter blank, some wear
on the edge, plus some corrosion. There would be no objection to the stylistics.
I especially don't think the reverse is overly imitated. No false legend.
And the style also differs a good bit depending on the minting site, which should of course also be taken into account.
The "C" you mentioned will be a "P". After that follows "F AVG".
Everything is OK. I would say, most of the points are in
favor of an official coinage.


best regards
Laurentius

Offline Dominic T

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Re: Tetricus I Scarce coin
« Reply #4 on: June 04, 2022, 09:16:16 am »
Local imitation. Not common with the character turned right. All specimens  I saw are imitations ( Roma just sold a very nice example in 2021). On official issues, the shield is made with a straight line; yours is kinda engraved with a line made of dots.
DT

Offline Ron C2

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Re: Tetricus I Scarce coin
« Reply #5 on: June 04, 2022, 10:56:17 am »
Fwiw. Here is my example of the left-facing reverse.

I agree, the shields are usually not "dot line" on official issues.

https://www.forumancientcoins.com/gallery/displayimage.php?pid=171819
My Ancient Coin Gallery: Click here

R. Cormier, Ottawa

Offline Laurentius

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Re: Tetricus I Scarce coin
« Reply #6 on: June 04, 2022, 02:56:40 pm »
The representation of the shield brings the answer, well observed!
Not an easy decision, but mysteries solved!

I also have a few examples in the comparison, where the decision would have been a little easier.
Sometimes it's obvious. Sometimes not.

best regards
Laurentius

Offline Flav V

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Re: Tetricus I Scarce coin
« Reply #7 on: June 05, 2022, 03:24:57 am »
Thanks, i have an good imitative coins for Tetricus II with CAAS instead of CAES. Tell me if you want to see.

Offline Laurentius

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Re: Tetricus I Scarce coin
« Reply #8 on: June 05, 2022, 06:26:02 am »
@ Flav V

That would be great, I'm a big fan of the tetricus family. And of the local imitations anyway!
All in all an exciting topic.

best regards
Laurentius

Offline Dominic T

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Re: Tetricus I Scarce coin
« Reply #9 on: June 05, 2022, 01:23:04 pm »
Thanks, i have an good imitative coins for Tetricus II with CAAS instead of CAES. Tell me if you want to see.

I’d be interested too. Here’s one of my favorite « minims » for Tet 2.
DT

Offline Flav V

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Re: Tetricus I Scarce coin
« Reply #10 on: June 06, 2022, 01:36:28 am »
Here is the coin. Tell me if you like the photo.

Offline Laurentius

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Re: Tetricus I Scarce coin
« Reply #11 on: June 06, 2022, 05:25:24 am »
Oh yes, nice coins! You don't see barbarized Tetricus II. that often either!

Appropriately, I can add an example showing how such pieces were made.
I still have some results and a find report from an official prospection from 2004,
where we were able to localize such a local mint. By the way, the production
of the official "Bronze-Antoniniani" was no different proceeded.
The blanks were chipped from cast bronzebars, that were notched and balted
before the minting process.
Regarding this mint, the first average weight determined was 1.49g, for a total
of 38 pieces(Blanks and Minimi) evaluated.
But of course, there were much lighter Minimi. I still have a tiny one somewhere,
have to look for it first.

best regards
Laurentius







Offline Flav V

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Re: Tetricus I Scarce coin
« Reply #12 on: June 06, 2022, 05:51:49 am »
This one is intersting because it shows the pouring channel. This coin is mold and differ from your exemplae with cut bars.

Offline Laurentius

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Re: Tetricus I Scarce coin
« Reply #13 on: June 06, 2022, 09:47:39 am »
That is indeed an interesting detail.
This would mean, that also other methods were used to produce these imitations.
Can you tell if the blank was cast first and then the coin was minted, or if it was cast as a whole?
But I also see a fine embossing crack. The blanks were probably made using the casting process?

best regards
Laurentius

Offline Flav V

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Re: Tetricus I Scarce coin
« Reply #14 on: June 07, 2022, 02:50:12 am »
Laurentius: i think its totaly mold. But i cant proof it by other way than saying that the appearance indicate a mold coin. The blank is round and the edge look like a cake out of the mold.

Is this sort of coin with proof of casting is known for this period?

Offline Laurentius

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Re: Tetricus I Scarce coin
« Reply #15 on: June 07, 2022, 07:34:23 am »
Quote
Is this sort of coin with proof of casting is known for this period?

I personally was not aware of this until now. But that's easy to imagine. Why not,
necessity is the mother of invention.

Wanted to introduce my smallest Tetricus. The diameter is 9mm and the weight is
0,28g.

best regards
Laurentius

Offline Dominic T

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Re: Tetricus I Scarce coin
« Reply #16 on: June 07, 2022, 07:51:22 am »
Is this sort of coin with proof of casting is known for this period?

Yes. There were 64 cast coins in the Cunetio hoard, 74 in the Normanby hoard, many of them from the Gallic Empire time. I’ll have to check my books to see if I can find a match with yours.
DT

Offline Flav V

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Re: Tetricus I Scarce coin
« Reply #17 on: June 07, 2022, 12:14:02 pm »
Thanks Dominic T.

Offline Dominic T

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Re: Tetricus I Scarce coin
« Reply #18 on: June 07, 2022, 05:24:53 pm »
I found an example illustrated from the Cunetio hoard, maybe with the same reverse (SPES ?) as yours. I also join pictures of some molds found with the cast coins from them (for Victorinus). It is believed the molds were made from genuine coins.
DT



Offline Flav V

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Re: Tetricus I Scarce coin
« Reply #19 on: June 08, 2022, 03:11:40 am »
Do you havec photos or reference of coins with pouring channel?

 

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