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Author Topic: My Gallery of Dutch Lion Daalders  (Read 7881 times)

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Offline djmacdo

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Re: Gallery of Dutch Lion Daalders
« Reply #25 on: March 27, 2020, 07:49:59 pm »
Just got my first lion daalder.  Not a gem and nothing special, but I like it.  The picture makes it look diriter than it is.

Offline djmacdo

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Re: Gallery of Dutch Lion Daalders
« Reply #26 on: March 27, 2020, 07:51:57 pm »
Darn it did not attach.  I shall try again.

Offline Molinari

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Re: Gallery of Dutch Lion Daalders
« Reply #27 on: March 27, 2020, 09:19:19 pm »
Nice looking coin, Mac.

Offline djmacdo

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Re: Gallery of Dutch Lion Daalders
« Reply #28 on: March 27, 2020, 10:14:42 pm »
They are fascinate to me because the Dutch for much of the seventeenth century were the trading power and these lion daalders circulated throughout the world.  The were overstruck in Turkey, countemarked in Russia and on Malta, imitated in Germany and Transylvania.  Paper money in colonial New York was payable in them.  They were an international trade coin, dominant everywhere except in the Spanish world.  And there are so very many varieties!  I am just beginning to learn about them.

Offline cmcdon0923

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Re: Gallery of Dutch Lion Daalders
« Reply #29 on: March 28, 2020, 12:21:23 am »
That's a great piece DJ.....great detail, especially on the lion.  These coins can come with a myriad of striking problems, but yours is very nice.  I'd gladly add one like that to my collection any day of the week!!


Craig

Offline djmacdo

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Re: Gallery of Dutch Lion Daalders
« Reply #30 on: March 28, 2020, 03:58:33 pm »
Thank you--high praise indeed!

Offline djmacdo

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Re: Gallery of Dutch Lion Daalders
« Reply #31 on: May 23, 2020, 12:40:46 pm »
I have acquired a second lion daalder, or at least I hope I have--it seems to be tired up in the mail from Europe, disrupted because of the darn virus.  I am still trying to acquire reference material, but, of course, libraries are closed. 

I have gotten especially interested in counterfeit and imitation lion daalders.  I am keeping a file of examples.  Thank you for posting your examples--and if you would ever part with either, please think of me.

Cordially.

Mac

Offline cmcdon0923

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Re: Gallery of Dutch Lion Daalders
« Reply #32 on: May 24, 2020, 01:13:11 pm »
The counterfeits and imitations are something of an entire area unto themselves.  They don't show up too often, and sometimes are very subtle in their differences from authorized issues.  The plated (fouree) examples are probably the easiest to identify for obvious reasons.


Craig

Offline Anaximander

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Re: Gallery of Dutch Lion Daalders
« Reply #33 on: May 28, 2020, 06:07:41 am »
The reference books for the Dutch daalders may be scarcer than the coins themselves. Listed on the 'bay' currently are three Crown reference books by Davenport (1600, 1700, and 1800) and others by Norbert Thun (covering 1800-1871) and Schulman. There's even on one French crowns (Crowns of France 1641-1973) by George Sobin.  When it rains, it pours.

Offline cmcdon0923

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Re: Gallery of Dutch Lion Daalders
« Reply #34 on: May 28, 2020, 12:26:51 pm »
That's true.  Several of the books will cost more that a nice VF-XF daalder.

Of the three Davenport books, the only one I bought is European Crowns 1600 - 1700, since the majority of the Lion Daalder issues fall between those dates, and I have copies of the pages from the 1684 - 1600 book that cover the LD issues.  I do not have the 1700 - 1800 book as the 18th century issues are for the most part extremely scarce to outright rare.  (The latest dated LD I've seen offered was dated 1688.)

The Davenport Delmonte book, The Silver Benelux, is very good for attributing them, as it lists multiple "sub varieties" for many dates (e.g., mint marks, legend variations, etc.).  It's also a bit pricey for an original, but I was able to buy a print-on-demand copy for less that US$60, including postage.


Craig

Offline okidoki

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Re: Gallery of Dutch Lion Daalders
« Reply #35 on: May 28, 2020, 01:14:20 pm »
Very nice and from my Country  ;D
All the Best,
Eric
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https://www.forumancientcoins.com/gallery/index.php?cat=37270

Offline djmacdo

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Re: Gallery of Dutch Lion Daalders
« Reply #36 on: June 08, 2020, 09:15:14 am »
I promise after this I shall stop highjacking your galley postings, but I do want to post my second lion daalder.  The lion on the reverse is a bit screwed up by double striking and there is some weakness on the obverse, but it is a decent representative specimen.

As get more into these, I appreciate your gallery more--such nice pieces and some very scarce types indeed!


Offline cmcdon0923

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Re: Gallery of Dutch Lion Daalders
« Reply #37 on: June 08, 2020, 02:26:04 pm »
Please....you are not hijacking anything.

Part of the reason I started this thread was to share my coins, but also for everyone and anyone to share theirs !!!!


Speaking of which, I have go to start working on shooting my coins.  I have probably three dozen that need to be shot and uploaded to the gallery.


Craig


Offline djmacdo

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Re: Gallery of Dutch Lion Daalders
« Reply #38 on: June 18, 2020, 08:24:21 pm »
Now I have a question--but first, I am not trying to screen a purchase but rather develop my eye for these coins.

I recently saw this:


I think this is a contemporary counterfeit of a lion daalder.  The knight has no feet, the style of the lion and the lettering is not normal.  What do you think?

Offline cmcdon0923

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Re: Gallery of Dutch Lion Daalders
« Reply #39 on: June 21, 2020, 12:18:57 am »
Nice coin.

It's really difficult to say if it's a CC or not.  While certain elements about the coin do appear to be of a somewhat "lower quality" level than would be expected, remember that these things were cranked out for trade purposes.....essentially glorified bullion.

Does it appear to made of silver?  Does it "ring"?  How about the weight?


Craig

Offline djmacdo

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Re: Gallery of Dutch Lion Daalders
« Reply #40 on: June 22, 2020, 07:49:47 pm »
It is not my coin--I have just a picture of it.  It looks silvery and I see no break in plating.  It is quite light:  25.73 g

Offline djmacdo

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Re: Gallery of Dutch Lion Daalders
« Reply #41 on: July 09, 2020, 07:14:41 am »
I am putting together a bibliography of lion daalders and their imitations.  I would be glad to send a copy to anyone interested in the hopes you might add to it or correct any errors.  I got my hands on a copy of Delmonte by inter-library loan and copied out the relevant sections, and I am to pick up a copy of Davenport from inter-library loan today.  Does anyone have a list of the supplements to Davenport?

I was delighted to discover that the entire Corpus Nummorum Italicorum is available online!

Mac

Offline Anaximander

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Re: Gallery of Dutch Lion Daalders
« Reply #42 on: October 12, 2020, 02:29:33 pm »
Here's a nice list of the collected works of one John S. Davenport on thalers/crowns... for sale by a numismatic bookseller.

A complete set of the nine main illustrated volumes:
1: EUROPEAN CROWNS AND TALERS SINCE 1800. London, 1964 second (final) edition.
2: EUROPEAN CROWNS 1700–1800. London, 1964 second edition.
3: GERMAN TALERS 1700–1800. London, 1965 second edition.
4: EUROPEAN CROWNS 1600–1700. Galesburg, 1974 (only) edition.
5: GERMAN CHURCH AND CITY TALERS 1600–1700. Galesburg, 1975 second (final) edition.
6: GERMAN SECULAR TALERS 1600–1700. Frankfurt am Main, 1976 (only) edition.
7: EUROPEAN CROWNS 1484–1600. Frankfurt am Main, 1977 first edition.
8: GERMAN TALERS 1500–1600. Frankfurt am Main, 1979 (only) edition.
9: THE DOLLARS OF AFRICA, ASIA & OCEANIA. Galesburg, 1969 (only) edition.
All 8vo, original leatherette covers. Final volume signed by the author. Near fine to fine.




Offline dwarf

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Re: Gallery of Dutch Lion Daalders
« Reply #43 on: October 12, 2020, 03:15:20 pm »
Nice to see this advertising here

But for Liontalers you just have to get this work

Gamberini di Scarfea, C. Studio sul Löwenthaler ed il mezzo. Löwenthaler delle Province Unite d'Olanda e sulle loro imitazioni econtraffazioni italiane e straniere. Brescia 1977

But I am sure that you know it as it is the basic work on "Imitations"

Klaus

Offline djmacdo

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Re: Gallery of Dutch Lion Daalders
« Reply #44 on: November 07, 2020, 03:21:50 pm »
I have it.  Good work, but not definitive.

Offline cmcdon0923

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Re: Gallery of Dutch Lion Daalders
« Reply #45 on: January 25, 2022, 05:06:56 pm »
Just got around to uploading these two recent purchases;  a 1670 West Friesland and a 1682 Campen.

Now I just need to find time to shoot about 20 other pieces for which I don't have decent images.


Craig

Offline cmcdon0923

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Re: Gallery of Dutch Lion Daalders
« Reply #46 on: March 11, 2022, 01:21:01 pm »
My latest addition....

1621 Overijssel Daalder


Craig

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Re: Gallery of Dutch Lion Daalders
« Reply #47 on: March 15, 2022, 05:37:43 pm »
Nice piece  +++

 Joe
All the Best :), Joe
My Gallery

Offline cmcdon0923

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Re: Gallery of Dutch Lion Daalders
« Reply #48 on: March 21, 2022, 11:21:02 pm »
I'm finally getting around to uploading some more images.  I just uploaded two; a 1586 and a 1636 daalder, both from HOLLAND

I have eight others to upload over the next few days. I had hoped to shoot the coins myself, but I just don't have the time, so I've taken the images from the auction listings and am posting them....with credit given of course.


Sincerely,

Craig

Offline djmacdo

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Re: My Gallery of Dutch Lion Daalders
« Reply #49 on: January 18, 2024, 09:57:46 am »
I just wanted to thank you for getting me interested in this fascinating area.  I have written an introduction to lion daalders and their imitations and wonder if I could get your to read it and provide criticisms.

Mac

 

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