Classical Numismatics Discussion
  Welcome Guest. Please login or register. All Items Purchased From Forum Ancient Coins Are Guaranteed Authentic For Eternity!!! Explore Our Website And Find Joy In The History, Numismatics, Art, Mythology, And Geography Of Coins!!! Expert Authentication - Accurate Descriptions - Reasonable Prices - Coins From Under $10 To Museum Quality Rarities Welcome Guest. Please login or register. Internet challenged? We Are Happy To Take Your Order Over The Phone 252-646-1958 Explore Our Website And Find Joy In The History, Numismatics, Art, Mythology, And Geography Of Coins!!! Support Our Efforts To Serve The Classical Numismatics Community - Shop At Forum Ancient Coins

New & Reduced


Author Topic: Please Help FAKE Oil Lamp  (Read 4909 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

MrsT

  • Guest
Please Help FAKE Oil Lamp
« on: October 03, 2013, 08:34:35 am »
I am looking for some help in identifying if my little oil lamp is fake?

We purchased a little box of bits and pieces recently and this little oil lamp was sitting at the bottom of the box. I am an avid lover of all things Roman, but a newbie when it comes to artefacts.

I myself suspect that it is a fake but I would be very grateful for any information anyone may have regarding this oil lamp.

Thank you in advance for you help

MrsT

  • Guest
Re: Please Help FAKE Oil Lamp
« Reply #1 on: October 03, 2013, 08:37:45 am »
Sorry measurements are Approx.  11.5cm from  handle to spout, approx. 5.5cm in diameter (discus) and approx. 5cm in height.

Thanks again in advance for you help

Mrs T

Strobilus

  • Guest
Re: Please Help FAKE Oil Lamp
« Reply #2 on: October 03, 2013, 03:15:54 pm »
Nope, your lamp is NOT a fake.

This is one of those cases where a lamp positively screams authentic even in just the images. Everything is exactly as it should be for this type of lamp.

Your lamp was made in central Italy (almost certainly near Rome) during the second half of the 1st century BC into the very early 1st century AD. It belongs to a type known as Vogelkopflampe or "bird's head lamp". The name refers to a common decoration on earlier examples of the type: two stylised birds' heads on either side of the channel on top of the nozzle. Your lamp is indeed an earlier example of the type and the decoration is clear (though perhaps not immediately obvious because it is stylised). This type of lamp very often bears an impressed maker's name on the base and though I cannot discern a mark in your photo, it might be worth having a close look yourself to see if there is one.

You have a very nice authentic example of a type of lamp that is unusual on the market today. Take good care of it. It is a survival not only from a particularly interesting period of Roman history - late Republican/early Imperial - but is likely to have been made actually in or near Rome itself. I wonder if it was around the Senate during the Ides of March in 44 BC!

I just wish that I had come across a "little box of bits and pieces" like that! :)



MrsT

  • Guest
Re: Please Help FAKE Oil Lamp
« Reply #3 on: October 03, 2013, 05:10:37 pm »
Thank you for your detailed reply and I can tell you I am one very happy lady. This is something I have always wanted to hold & admire, and I certainly never thought that it would be something I would own!
I am assuming that the seller had no clue as to it purpose or age.

There is a mark to the base of the Oil lamp, a letter 'J' ( for sure) and perhaps another mark 'T P' or maybe 'E T P' then is fades away. I also notice that this oil lamp is in extraordinary condition compared to some of the example I have seen. Why would this be?? This was the main reason I felt that it was a fake, simply because it is in such amazing condition considering all it has seen through the ages.

Thank you again. Mrs T

Strobilus

  • Guest
Re: Please Help FAKE Oil Lamp
« Reply #4 on: October 03, 2013, 08:27:45 pm »
Quote
There is a mark to the base of the Oil lamp, a letter 'J' ( for sure) and perhaps another mark 'T P' or maybe 'E T P' then is fades away.

There was no letter 'J' as such in ancient Latin though a swash 'I' sometimes looked similar. Since lamps were mass-produced by a relatively small number of workshops, the names of makers tend to recur over and over again and the name on your lamp, even if incomplete or partially indiscernible, is likely to be identified if compared to a clearer example of the name on another lamp. I could suggest that you post a close-up pic of the mark on your lamp but since all my reference works are inaccessible at present I may not be able to help much until I have access again.


Quote
I also notice that this oil lamp is in extraordinary condition compared to some of the example I have seen. Why would this be??

What lamps are you comparing it to? Are they from the same region and the same period? It would be pointless to compare it with anything else. The condition of your lamp is not particularly "extraordinary" but is fairly typical for an intact lamp of its specific type.

Please note the enormous variety of lamps on my website: http://www.romulus2.com/lamps/index.shtml

I wonder if you are confusing "condition" with "quality"? Italian lamps of this period tend to be of higher quality than many provincial lamps of the same period or later. They tend to be more carefully crafted of finer materials and with much higher definition.

It is by no means an invariable rule but very often 1st-century lamps made in Italy do tend to be of higher quality than those made in many of the provinces ...
An Italian lamp of the 1st century AD: http://www.romulus2.com/lamps/database/lamp.php?134
A provincial lamp of the 1st - 2nd century AD: http://www.romulus2.com/lamps/database/lamp.php?42


Quote
... it is in such amazing condition considering all it has seen through the ages.

No, not really. It may seem harshly unromantic but it's worth bearing in mind that it probably hasn't "seen" anything at all during most of time it has spent through the ages. It's been buried underground.

Antiquities are not like antiques. Antiques get handed down from one generation to another and during that time they have been handled by untold numbers of people. It is the exposure to air, light, dust and pollutants, and the surface wear and grease caused by human handling that leaves an object looking 'old' in the conventional sense. Antiquities, like this lamp, on the other hand have been safely, almost clinically, buried under the ground for most of their existence and during that time they have not been handled by anyone at all.

While artefacts of organic material, such as wood or cloth, survive only under certain conditions, and other materials, such as some metals, can corrode; pottery is amazingly resilient. Pottery can get smashed to smithereens of course but intact smaller items, particularly those found in tombs, are not uncommon. And since the artefact has not been touched or handled for hundreds or thousands of years, it can sometimes look startlingly fresh, clean and pristine when excavated.



Strobilus

  • Guest
Re: Please Help FAKE Oil Lamp
« Reply #5 on: October 03, 2013, 09:07:14 pm »
Incidentally, those inexperienced in antiquities commonly make the mistake of believing that authentic artefacts should be worn and dirty, and that artefacts which are pristine and clean must be fake. Very often the opposite is true.

Offline Jay GT4

  • Tribunus Plebis 2021
  • Procurator Caesaris
  • Caesar
  • ****
  • Posts: 7007
  • Leave the gun, take the Canoli!
Re: Please Help FAKE Oil Lamp
« Reply #6 on: October 03, 2013, 11:17:45 pm »
That's a beautiful piece!  Congratulations on a wonderful find!

superflex

  • Guest
Re: Please Help FAKE Oil Lamp
« Reply #7 on: October 04, 2013, 02:35:58 am »
Here's some info on these types:

LINK

Offline SC

  • Tribunus Plebis Perpetuus
  • Procurator Monetae
  • Caesar
  • *****
  • Posts: 6070
    • A Handbook of Late Roman Bronze Coin Types 324-395.
Re: Please Help FAKE Oil Lamp
« Reply #8 on: October 04, 2013, 03:16:11 am »
Beware Mrs. T!

This could be the beginning of a collection......

 ;)

And congratulations.  Sadly, we do see far more of the opposite case - where people bring coins or antiquities here that they are certain are genuine only to learn they are fake.  Nice to know that the reverse happens sometimes.

Shawn
SC
(Shawn Caza, Ottawa)

MrsT

  • Guest
Re: Please Help FAKE Oil Lamp
« Reply #9 on: October 04, 2013, 09:20:37 am »
Thank you so much for all your help. As you can imagine I am delighted with my find and to then find out it is real.   ;D  ;D  ;D


Strobilus

  • Guest
Re: Please Help FAKE Oil Lamp
« Reply #10 on: October 20, 2013, 05:13:59 pm »
Hmmm ....

After identifying this lamp as having been made "in central Italy (almost certainly near Rome) during the second half of the 1st century BC into the very early 1st century AD" and then HUMOROUSLY speculating that "I wonder if it was around the Senate during the Ides of March in 44 BC", I find this in its description on eBay ([BROKEN LINK REMOVED BY ADMIN]):

"... it has been confirmed that this little oil lamp is an Italian lamp, more than likely produced in Rome c. 44AD"

No, I said no such thing (quite apart from Caesar's assassination being 44 BC, not AD). I can't help wondering why I take the time to identify things if people don't actually bother to read what I wrote.

Offline Jay GT4

  • Tribunus Plebis 2021
  • Procurator Caesaris
  • Caesar
  • ****
  • Posts: 7007
  • Leave the gun, take the Canoli!
Re: Please Help FAKE Oil Lamp
« Reply #11 on: October 20, 2013, 05:34:03 pm »
Well, that's disappointing...

Strobilus

  • Guest
Re: Please Help FAKE Oil Lamp
« Reply #12 on: October 20, 2013, 07:56:56 pm »
Yes, Jay. It was a bit disappointing.

This is something I have always wanted to hold & admire, and I certainly never thought that it would be something I would own!

I guess the OP didn't admire it enough to want to own it for very long!

 

All coins are guaranteed for eternity