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Author Topic: need help identifying coin  (Read 2647 times)

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need help identifying coin
« on: September 10, 2006, 09:42:52 am »
Can anyone help identify this Hasmonean coin?  I can't seem to match inscriptions.
Thanks

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Re: need help identifying coin
« Reply #1 on: September 10, 2006, 09:45:52 am »
...here is the picture.
Thanks

Offline frederic

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Re: need help identifying coin
« Reply #2 on: September 10, 2006, 12:26:57 pm »
Hi, your coin is difficult to read all letters because is very dark.

But I'm sur is a coin from john Hyrcanus I : probably Hendin 463 with tis text in hebrew: Yehochanan hacohen hagadol roch hever yehuhedem. Yehochanan the high priest and Head of the concil of the Jews.

Best Regards

frederic


Offline Robert_Brenchley

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Re: need help identifying coin
« Reply #3 on: September 10, 2006, 03:14:33 pm »
I think it has to be, though the cornucopia doesn't seem quite the right shape. I don't see what else it could be though.
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Offline Howard Cole

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Re: need help identifying coin
« Reply #4 on: September 10, 2006, 04:37:55 pm »
I have to agree with the other two, but I disagree with Hendin's attributions for Hasmonaean coins.  Lately I have been using Meshorer to attribute these coins.  He and others have argued that the Hasmonaeans started minting coins that was generally believed before the current research seems to indecate.  He has stated that Hasmonaean coinage starts with Alexander Jannaeus, but the next to mint was Judas Aristobulus II, then Hyrcanus II, and finally Mattathias Antigonus.  The coins Hendin attributes to Hycanus I, Meshorer attributes t Hyrcanus II.

When I have more time, maybe over one of the winter holidays, I try to summerizes Meshorer's arguements for a later dating of most Hasmonaean coins.

Offline Robert_Brenchley

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Re: need help identifying coin
« Reply #5 on: September 10, 2006, 06:33:12 pm »
Who does he say minted the Antiochos VII lily reverse? I'm currently going by Hendin's attributions, but I'm aware of his position. I need to study his arguments when I get a chance.
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Offline Howard Cole

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Re: need help identifying coin
« Reply #6 on: September 11, 2006, 07:27:46 am »
Sorry about the confusion.  I was writing specifically about the double cornucopias and inscription coins.  I did not make this clear in my earlier post.

The Antiochos VII lily reverse coins are attributed to John Hyrcanus I.

Offline Salem Alshdaifat

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Re: need help identifying coin
« Reply #7 on: October 04, 2006, 12:49:40 am »
sorry I wasent around for this section for some time.
your coin rev is upside down, it is most likely Hendin 457, John Hyrcanus I (Yehohanan), 134 - 104 B.C.
kind regards
Salem

Offline Howard Cole

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Re: need help identifying coin
« Reply #8 on: October 04, 2006, 01:31:21 am »
Salem are you sure the reverse is upside down.  If so, then the leaves on the wreath will point the wrong way.

Offline Salem Alshdaifat

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Re: need help identifying coin
« Reply #9 on: October 04, 2006, 01:59:07 am »
it could be vareity, these types came with tons of vareities, but you can see that is the only way you can read it, it is clear HNN , and the third line you can make HG , and at the fourth line you can make HBR ,the other way it is imposible to figur it out, or to make the script reading.

Offline Howard Cole

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Re: need help identifying coin
« Reply #10 on: October 04, 2006, 06:02:39 pm »
Salem,

After looking through Anciet Jewish Coinage, Volume I and SNG ANS Part 6, I can't find any coin with the leaves of the wreath pointed in the wrong direction.  I believe that this would be too large of a mistake to make while engraving the die.  The top of the die is always the same as the top of the coin.

Meshorer does mention in his Group L coins that the inscriptions on these coins have varying styles of letters (same letter but using two different styles on the same coin) and that the second half of this series contains many errors.

I have no way to prove it, but I think that the person that engraved the die did not understand the inscription and made many mistakes in cutting the letters.  Having the leaves of the wreath going the wrong way is just too big of a mistake to allow.

Howard

Offline Salem Alshdaifat

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Re: need help identifying coin
« Reply #11 on: October 04, 2006, 11:47:55 pm »
HI again
the scription is very crudely in this coin, if you turen it upside down you will see HNN very clear, after I reread the coin many times I belive that it is true that the coin is not upside down but rather very crudely here are two scans with one up side down and another one as is
in the first scan you read HNN at the first line
in the second one you read
OHY
HNN(HUH)
so this make it H 463 Var.
about who was the first Hasmonean preist I think that the 1980 Hoard remove the cover and solve this problem, and I belive that Meshror him self agreed that Hyrcanus I is the first Ruler after he strongly belived befor that it was Alexander Jannaius, and this is not an issue any more, Hyrcanus I was the first ruler, the issue is wether Alexander or Judah was the second preist???
kind regards
Salem

Offline Robert_Brenchley

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Re: need help identifying coin
« Reply #12 on: October 05, 2006, 06:29:05 pm »
If you've read that right (and I can't swear to it; I've got an attack of migraine), then it's clearly Yehohanan, the Hebrew name of Hyrcanus I. It's not exactly H463, but 463var is probably the closest you're ging to get.
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Offline Howard Cole

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Re: need help identifying coin
« Reply #13 on: October 05, 2006, 11:55:31 pm »

about who was the first Hasmonean preist I think that the 1980 Hoard remove the cover and solve this problem, and I belive that Meshror him self agreed that Hyrcanus I is the first Ruler after he strongly belived befor that it was Alexander Jannaius, and this is not an issue any more, Hyrcanus I was the first ruler, the issue is wether Alexander or Judah was the second preist???
kind regards
Salem

Again I will have to disagree with this.  I have read an article in the American Journal of Numismatics that was published in the late 1990's that supports Meshor's attributions.  I am not arguing who was the first priest, but which one issued which coins.  When I have more time (after the semester is over, it looks like), I will write up what I can find from my published sources.

Additionally, where can I find information about the 1980 Hoard?

Offline Salem Alshdaifat

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Re: need help identifying coin
« Reply #14 on: October 06, 2006, 12:17:29 am »
Hi Howard
check Hendin, I have the third addetion check pages 67, 68, 69.
about which is which at the Hasmonean coins, I belive it will apear in the coming Archo discoveris, tell now no one can tell for sure, it is still open case.
kind regards
Salem

 

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