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Author Topic: Which Roman Provincial town is this coin from?  (Read 592 times)

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Offline Jan P

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Which Roman Provincial town is this coin from?
« on: January 25, 2022, 04:56:37 pm »
Just back from a visit to a friend collector. The man is in his eighties and has no computer. He is a collector old style with a quite interesting collection.
Today I saw a brass coin in his possession with following legends in Greek:

Obvers: ΑΥΤ ΚΜ ΑΥΡ ΣΕΒ ΑΛΕΖΑΝΔΡΟΣ - Head of emperor laureate & togate.
Revers: ΜΗΤΡΟΠΠΟΝΤΟΥΜΕΑΕ - Hygieia to the right - Greek delta in the field.

It is a coin of Severus Alexander, but I have no idea of the town which has its name on the revers.
Sorry, at the moment I have no picture and within a month I will not see my friend back.

Is there somebody having enough with these data to come to an identification, or shall I repeat this question after a month and with pictures?

Offline Pekka K

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Re: Which Roman Provincial town is this coin from?
« Reply #1 on: January 26, 2022, 01:47:35 am »

Offline Altamura

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Offline Jan P

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Re: Which Roman Provincial town is this coin from?
« Reply #3 on: January 26, 2022, 04:56:55 am »
Thank you very much Peka K and Altamura for your answers.
Coming home yesterday, I searched myself on Wildwinds and came along Tomis, the only mint with legend "Metropontou", but my friends' piece had clearly "Metrop-pontou" with double "p" and followed by something as (see below) ...
ΜΗΤΡΟΠ ΠΟΝΤΟΥ + ΜΕΑΕ, ΜΕΛΕor ΜΕΔΕ
Further there was no trace of Tomis on the coin, so I strongly doubt ... I think it might be a rare piece ... or a fake :-\.
Maybe I must really show you the pictures to get your valued opinion at its best. In that case we have to be patient for some time.

Altamura, your link gave me the site without pictures helas.

I hope we will meet again in this topic later on ;).

Offline Altamura

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Re: Which Roman Provincial town is this coin from?
« Reply #4 on: January 26, 2022, 05:08:25 am »
... Altamura, your link gave me the site without pictures helas. ...
I see them, but the site is sometimes a bit slow :-\.

Alternatively you can try these :):
https://catalogue.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/cb41826276n
https://catalogue.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/cb418262770

Regards

Altamura

Offline Jan P

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Re: Which Roman Provincial town is this coin from?
« Reply #5 on: January 26, 2022, 06:41:22 am »
Yes, yes, yes Altamura! That is the piece!
I copied the pictures, because I will need them for my friend, the owner of the coin.
Both pictures underneath have references of the Bibliothèque Nationale de France and that seem to be the only available. (1 = FRBNF41826277 and 2 = FRBNF41826276).
The site does not give to much comment.
But I am very glad!
I see, I missed a couple of times in the spelling of the legends, sorry therefore.
So, Tomis all the same ;)!
Thanks and till next time :laugh:!

Offline Jan P

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Re: Which Roman Provincial town is this coin from?
« Reply #6 on: January 26, 2022, 06:55:11 am »
Well, looking it now quietly over again, I see that there is ... pontouTOM... in the legend. "ΤΟΜΕΩΣ"!
By reading it at my friends place, I must have taken the TOM for the TOY that stood in front.
Sorry Peka K and Altamura.

Offline Jan P

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Re: Which Roman Provincial town is this coin from?
« Reply #7 on: February 01, 2022, 11:36:36 am »
Today I had the possibility to visit my friend again, much earlier than I thought I would.
By this occasion I photographed, weighed and messured his species of the coin: 27 mm for 13,18 g.
My friend had some questions:
If the coin has only references of the Bibliothèque Nationale de France and no RPC reference and if the BNF gives two succesive references to two identical species of the coin, does that mean the coin is of a rare type?

Offline Jochen

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Re: Which Roman Provincial town is this coin from?
« Reply #8 on: February 01, 2022, 03:19:54 pm »
It's Tomis too. Look at wildwinds.com. Moushmov 2156 looks similar.

But, please, it is better to start a new thread if you ask for a new coin!

Best regards
Jochen

Offline Jan P

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Re: Which Roman Provincial town is this coin from?
« Reply #9 on: February 01, 2022, 05:19:36 pm »
Dear Jochen,
I do not present a new coin here. In my first message, I promised I would visit my friend again and take a picture of the piece, to prove I was informing about a coin we have here and not something we saw on the www.
So my picture does not show a Moushmov- , but a BNF-reference. The one Altamura did identify. (The Moushmov-reference is different).
When I left my friend after the first visit, we did not know much about the coin. But now that we spoke again, with the coin identified, my friend has some questions about the rarity of this piece.
That's where we are to ;).
Altamura seems to know French references very wel. So, I wonder if he can tell us more about these.

Offline Mark Fox

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Re: Which Roman Provincial town is this coin from?
« Reply #10 on: February 02, 2022, 02:18:24 am »
Dear Jan, Pekka, Altamura, Jochen, and Board,

Jan's friend is the owner of a rather handsome coin!  Very nicely centered.  I have to admit:  I do like the neat, "printing press" look of certain Tomis Roman provincials!   

There is no RPC reference for this Tomis type yet because the European side of RPC VI (covering the period AD 218–238) has yet to be put online.  I suspect it will be coming soon, but in the meantime, let's take a peek in AMNG I/I:

https://archive.org/details/p2dieantikenmn01akaduoft/page/820/mode/2up

On pages 820 and 821, we are inundated with Hygieia on a group of four-assarion bronzes (denoted as such by the large delta)!  But let us stay calm; we can get through this!  By simply noting the zeta on our coin (in the emperor's cognomen) as opposed to a xi, we have already eliminated a lot of the possibilities.  Again, the abbreviation for the title metropolis (presumably intended to be in the nominative ΜΗΤΡΟΠΟΛΙϹ) is "ΜΗΤΡΟΠ" on the reverse of our coin, which now leaves us with only three candidates.  The emperor on two of them is depicted as "Br. m. L. P. M. r., Brust nach vorn" which means we are dealing with a bust that is laureate, draped, cuirassed, and seen from the front.  That is our boy!  And better yet, the obverse legends for AMNG I/I 8135 & 8136 match our coin.  Now for the reverse.  The delta on the first coin is interestingly a part of the clockwise reverse legend and is depicted upside down (I am guessing in the exergue), which is certainly not the case on Jan's friend's coin.  On that piece, it is in the left field, which is exactly what "i. F. l." means in the description for no. 8136. 

Do we have a match, then?  Well, yes and no.  On no. 8136, there is supposed to be a dot between "ΜΗΤΡΟΠ" and "ΠΟΝΤΟV" which I do not see on our coin, although perhaps it is there, but just obscured and/or weakly struck.  If you want to be very picky, you can cite the catalog reference as AMNG I/I 8136 var. (no dot)!

As for rarity, I think AMNG makes it very clear that the hygiene-minded ancient inhabitants of Tomis, if they were still around today and attending a concert for Greek deities, would certainly be pumping their glow sticks for Hygieia.  One could argue that this or that minor variety of the Hygieia type for Severus Alexander is quite rare, and maybe some are (including #8136 with only one coin cited by AMNG), but mostly in the academic sense only.  Value wise, we have not arrived yet at the "Lincoln cent stage" where very minute variations in detail are going to translate into significant premiums.  To sum it up neatly, the Tomis coin under study is of a very common reverse type for a common emperor, but is in somewhat uncommonly good condition.  All around, it is a great coin to have in one's collection!                   

I hope that helps!  For the records, the two BnF coins that Altamura kindly linked could be additional specimens of AMNG I/I 8136 and may even be die-identical to Jan's friend's coin (in different die states).     


Best regards,

Mark Fox
Michigan         

Offline Jan P

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Re: Which Roman Provincial town is this coin from?
« Reply #11 on: February 02, 2022, 06:45:45 am »
Thank you very much once again Mark Fox to honour our coin with such elaborate explanation!
I admit, I had to read it all twice and the second time very slowly, to catch it all.
I was a bit afraid, I had to disappoint my friend, after all I told him yesterday, but there is enough left to make him very glad and proud with this coin.
As I told in the first message, my friend has no computer. So, a print-out of this topic will be very welcome.

Offline Mark Fox

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Re: Which Roman Provincial town is this coin from?
« Reply #12 on: February 02, 2022, 07:21:40 am »
Dear Jan and Board,

Yes, yes, you are very correct about the "3-assaria" issue and I will modify my post accordingly!  One of the risks about composing such long posts late at night...  Delta is of course the fourth Greek letter.  Ugh...


Best regards,

Mark Fox
Michigan

Offline Mark Fox

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Re: Which Roman Provincial town is this coin from?
« Reply #13 on: February 03, 2022, 12:21:59 am »
Hello again Jan and Board,

In a small follow-up to my mistake (thank you again for catching it!) , I should have also written "assaria" in its singular form ("assarion"), since I was using it as an adjective.  The error becomes more apparent if we replace the word with "cents," as follows:  "on a group of four-cents bronzes."  Now corrected.

The term "assarion," by the way, is not necessarily what the people of Tomis called their coins.  In lieu of such historical information, the assarion and its multiples and fractions commonly serve as a convenient placeholder when discussing Roman provincial bronze denominations whose local and/or official names are uncertain.  However, unlike the silver Roman antoninianus (believed to be worth two Roman denarii), which may have been a fictional name for the coin invented by a writer in the Historia Augusta, the assarion was a real name of a coin.  Theoretically, it was the Greek/Roman provincial equivalent of the Roman as (from which the word "assarion" is derived via "assarius"), but in practice, the exchange rate (against the Roman denarius, for example) was anything but fixed.  For more information on this fascinating topic, you can set up a free JSTOR account and read the following Historia article by our very own David MacDonald!
     
https://www.jstor.org/stable/4436097

You can also tell your friend that Tomis coins are currently quite popular among collectors, whether a certain type is common or not.  Some of this is probably due to the fact that so many different types were issued and the quality/artistry of the die cutting was typically high (with the possibly scary exception of some of the Commodus issues!).

Anyway, that is all for tonight!


Best regards,

Mark Fox
Michigan

Offline Jan P

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Re: Which Roman Provincial town is this coin from?
« Reply #14 on: February 03, 2022, 07:15:37 am »
Thank you very much Mark Fox for the supplementary explanation!
And also my friend will be very well served as for the receiving of information ;).
All my sympathy,
Jan

 

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