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Author Topic: Unidentified AR: Helmeted Athena, Milesian-style Stellate Pattern  (Read 2239 times)

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Offline CANTANATRIX

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Dear All,

It has been quite some time, but I have recently purchased the below:

AR hemiobol / tetartemorion. Obverse: Helmeted Head of Athena, facing right. Reverse: Stellate pattern of Milesian style, 0.3 g, 8.2 mm. Early-Mid 4th Century BC(?)

With the distinctive stellate pattern, this appears quite distinct from the fractional Athena/ stellate issues so far attributed to Troas, Kolone, and also to those of Crete, Itanos.

The stellate pattern is very much in the style of the famous lion / stellate coinage of  Miletos, later used on Satrapal coinage of Caria, Hekatomnos. From the style of Athena &  the stellate pattern, it seems to have more in common with the later Satrapal issues.

There is a similar Achaemenid fractional issue featuring a Persian King instead of Athena, tentatively attributed to the same rulers: https://www.acsearch.info/search.html?id=3317405

Your thoughts on this are much appreciated,

Kind Regards,

Andrew
"Quickly, bring me a beaker of wine, so that I may wet my mind and say something clever." Aristophanes

"He is a wise man who invented beer." Plato

Offline esnible

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Re: Unidentified AR: Helmeted Athena, Milesian-style Stellate Pattern
« Reply #1 on: July 16, 2017, 09:56:58 pm »
I agree that this doesn't look like the the fractional Athena/ stellate issues.  Note that those issues don't look much like each other!  Not looking like them isn't enough.

It also doesn't look much like Korcyra.  https://www.acsearch.info/search.html?id=3675984

Offline djmacdo

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Re: Unidentified AR: Helmeted Athena, Milesian-style Stellate Pattern
« Reply #2 on: July 17, 2017, 08:34:50 am »
I do not know why--so this is probably worthless--but this reminds me of something from Crete.

Offline Sam

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Re: Unidentified AR: Helmeted Athena, Milesian-style Stellate Pattern
« Reply #3 on: July 17, 2017, 08:51:23 am »
Maybe over obverse struck, on Ionia (Lion) coin, between 8 and 9 O’clock, it looks like the mouth of the Lion.
Just thoughts as you said  ;)
Sam Mansourati

Offline djmacdo

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Re: Unidentified AR: Helmeted Athena, Milesian-style Stellate Pattern
« Reply #4 on: July 18, 2017, 08:25:21 am »
I too think it is overstruck, but maybe the traces on the obverse are from a four-part incuse square rather than a lion.  I just cannot be sure.

Offline CANTANATRIX

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Re: Unidentified AR: Helmeted Athena, Milesian-style Stellate Pattern
« Reply #5 on: July 19, 2017, 08:20:09 am »
Thank You for your replies everyone.

It is an interesting thought regarding the obverse being overstruck. It raises the questions though of a) where the obverse type comes from (The coinage of Lycia, Telmessos comes to mind... also incidentally a city with links to nearby Caria)

 and b) why overstrike such a tiny coin with another design in the first place?

Regarding Crete, Itanos is known for its Athena/ Stellate depictions.

Kind Regards,

Andrew
"Quickly, bring me a beaker of wine, so that I may wet my mind and say something clever." Aristophanes

"He is a wise man who invented beer." Plato

Offline Sam

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Re: Unidentified AR: Helmeted Athena, Milesian-style Stellate Pattern
« Reply #6 on: July 19, 2017, 09:21:42 am »
Hi Cantana , I had thoughts of over obverse struck , maybe on a type like this ( just an example , does not mean same exact ref number )  ;  ( from FORVM Coin Shop - Sold )

https://www.forumancientcoins.com/catalog/roman-and-greek-coins.asp?vpar=18&zpg=50077

See the points on the Lion nose .

But all still theory.
Sam Mansourati

Offline CANTANATRIX

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Re: Unidentified AR: Helmeted Athena, Milesian-style Stellate Pattern
« Reply #7 on: August 22, 2017, 05:52:57 pm »
Hi Sam,

Thanks for your reply.

The coin is struck on a very thin flan, and the weight is far below the Miletos lions. Also there are no later Caria Hekatomnos fractions with such a stellate pattern in this weight range I can find.

It does fit in with the weight range and stellate style of the Persian King fractions, but it still does not make much sense to overstrike such a tiny coin.

Kind Regards,

Andrew
"Quickly, bring me a beaker of wine, so that I may wet my mind and say something clever." Aristophanes

"He is a wise man who invented beer." Plato

Offline Joe Sermarini

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Re: Unidentified AR: Helmeted Athena, Milesian-style Stellate Pattern
« Reply #8 on: August 23, 2017, 10:03:18 am »
https://www.forumancientcoins.com/inv-src2.asp?pos=1&what=90771&B1=Search

This type is apparently missing from the major references and collections but we have handled several and know of about a dozen. The styles vary considerably, indicating they may have been struck over a long period. The mint city is not certain.

It sold this morning.
Joseph Sermarini
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Offline CANTANATRIX

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Re: Unidentified AR: Helmeted Athena, Milesian-style Stellate Pattern
« Reply #9 on: August 23, 2017, 03:56:13 pm »
Hi Joe,

Indeed your coin appears from the series currently attributed to Troas, Kolone. I bought a nice classical style one from you I believe.

This coin seems distinct from that series, both from the Athena, in a different helmet type, and the stellate incuse, which is of the Miletos/ Hekatomnos type.

Perhaps given time an attribution may be found like the Kolone type (based on later bronzes with similar design in that case), as noted above closest similarities seem to be with  Achaemenid issues, and that's all I've got so far...

Kind Regards.

Andrew
"Quickly, bring me a beaker of wine, so that I may wet my mind and say something clever." Aristophanes

"He is a wise man who invented beer." Plato

Offline Joe Sermarini

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Re: Unidentified AR: Helmeted Athena, Milesian-style Stellate Pattern
« Reply #10 on: August 23, 2017, 04:36:10 pm »
What references are you using for the Kolone, Troas and other attributions?
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Offline CANTANATRIX

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Re: Unidentified AR: Helmeted Athena, Milesian-style Stellate Pattern
« Reply #11 on: August 23, 2017, 04:52:31 pm »
That type is still not in the literature I think, but has cropped up enough times at auction etc. that the current thinking attributes it to Kolone as later bronze issues have the Athena stellate pattern. For example below:

https://www.acsearch.info/search.html?term=kolone+athena+&category=1-2&en=1&de=1&fr=1&it=1&es=1&ot=1&images=1&currency=usd&thesaurus=1&order=0&company=

The Persian issues are linked in a previous post.

EDIT: Link may not work so here is a pic of some results, you can search for more detail.



Kind Regards,

Andrew



"Quickly, bring me a beaker of wine, so that I may wet my mind and say something clever." Aristophanes

"He is a wise man who invented beer." Plato

Offline Joe Sermarini

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Re: Unidentified AR: Helmeted Athena, Milesian-style Stellate Pattern
« Reply #12 on: August 23, 2017, 05:06:38 pm »
Hmm, I will have to look into it. 
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Offline BrianW

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Re: Unidentified AR: Helmeted Athena, Milesian-style Stellate Pattern
« Reply #13 on: April 29, 2021, 09:11:49 am »
I own many coins thought to be from Kolone. There are a variety of both obverse and reverse styles which distinguish these coins from others.  Neither the obverse nor the reverse of this coin looks exactly like any of mine. I realize this post is old, I was searching for Kolone and it popped up. The differences in style in Kolone coins to me show a progression which indicates that if these were all struck in the same city, they were done so over a lengthy period of time.  There also seems to be a difference in weights which makes me think there are a couple of denominations here. I do not have it all catalogued and written down, so I cannot provide to you the sort of quality details that would be of more use.  But I would say this.  There appears to be a progression from a semi archaic representation of Athena to, eventually, a more defined Athena with more of a "chiseled" jaw and sharper features. This Athena in your photo is most similar to the Kolone coins I view as the more recent issues. And even then, it seems a little different still. This has become one of the only coins I collect anymore.
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Offline Altamura

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Re: Unidentified AR: Helmeted Athena, Milesian-style Stellate Pattern
« Reply #14 on: April 29, 2021, 11:25:11 am »
As far as I know this type still is not firmly attributed to a certain mint  :-\.

I never heard strong arguments for Kolone. A head of Athena and some sort of stellate pattern are not so unique that this would be evidence enough.

Regards

Altamura


 

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