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Author Topic: From the unclean pile  (Read 1032 times)

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Offline ecoli

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From the unclean pile
« on: August 26, 2006, 01:06:38 am »


I know next to nothing about it.

Offline Howard Cole

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Re: From the unclean pile
« Reply #1 on: August 26, 2006, 05:16:59 am »
You need to clean the reverse a little better to be able to read the inscription, but with the bust of Christ on the obverse holding the book of Gospels, I a fairly sure this is an Anonymous  follis.  I believe it to be a Class A follis, but I am not 100% sure.

Offline irish

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Re: From the unclean pile
« Reply #2 on: August 26, 2006, 12:16:59 pm »
I am pretty sure this is Anonymous Follis, Gr. 982, Class A Folles' target='_blank'>class A2, small flan (Light Class), Haloed Christ with Gospels OBV.  The obvious way to tell 982 from 983 is this: are there dots or rectangles devices within the halo?  Dots (5 in each ray) are 982, and 982 is also the light class (Vs heavy-- 983-w/recangle in each halo ray vs the 5 dots) so I think we are safe saying 982 here.

RX is 4 lines of letters, approximating

(cross)ihsys 
xristys
basiley
basile

Class A Folles' target='_blank'>Ornament above and below but not sturck here because flan so small.  the desert choco-Patina Makes me think it might conserve well.  Good Luck.
Detritus, detritus, detritus...ad infinitum...

Offline vercingetorix

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Re: From the unclean pile
« Reply #3 on: August 27, 2006, 10:27:29 am »
A2 is the heaviest class. A1 is the lightest. Anyway we need ecoli to tell us the weight first.
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Offline irish

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Re: From the unclean pile
« Reply #4 on: August 27, 2006, 01:10:30 pm »
Ah, ok.  Still learning.  Grierson has 981, 982, 983 listed all as A2, with varieities 1-47 and not limited to that (I think).  I am looking at page 372 of Byzantine Coins.  Older volume I think.  All of these types listed as A2 have varying classes;

eg.

(981, Class A Folles' target='_blank'>Class A2, Variety 1 (Heaviest Class) for the particular coin pixed at 981 I take it -- 24.58g)

(982, Class A Folles' target='_blank'>Class A2, Variety 39 (Light Class) for the particular coin pixed at 982 I take it -- 10.08g)

(983, Class A Folles' target='_blank'>Class A2, Variety 47 (medium Class) for the particular coin pixed at 982 I take it -- 11.65g)

very confusing.  And there are typos in the books too, I have found them in the past, and these add yet another aspect to be dealt with.

Grierson says the A2's are more interesting than the A1's also.

So we are wondering about the weight here now.  Yes.  Thanks for writing V.  This I would bet is A1 then in weight, it just matches the picture of my initial attribution better.  The ratto is useless for details, and my sear is real old.  Thanks again.

b
   
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Offline vercingetorix

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Re: From the unclean pile
« Reply #5 on: August 28, 2006, 02:28:43 am »
Irish, check Wolfgang Hahn catalogs "Moneta Imperii Byzantini" 3 vols. It is probably the best. Last edition of Sear from 1987, i think, is not bad either. Class A1, A2, A3 are very close related in terms of style. Sometimes the ornamentation on the reverse differ but this is a more complicated matter. Anyway class a1 is the ligtest, a2 the heavier one and a3 in the middle. The coin in the picture might belong to any of the three classes, until we learn about its weight.
Timeo Danaos et dona ferentes...

Offline byzantiumcoins

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Re: From the unclean pile
« Reply #6 on: August 28, 2006, 04:24:39 am »
Hahn´ s MIB isn´t helpful in this case, it only treats the time from Heraclius - Leo III ( 610-720 )
The best is still Grierson in DOC and Metcalf´s extensive article in the Numismatic Chronicle 1970
As for the classes and weights:

Class A1 is recognizable in not having Class A Folles' target='_blank'>ornaments above and below the reverse legend ( with one or two extremely rare exceptions )
and in 99% of all cases in beeing overstruck on earlier issues. Class A1 is quite scarce, 90% of all coins offered are low grade Class A Folles' target='_blank'>Class A2

Sear´s  Class A Folles' target='_blank'>Class A3 is obsolete, ( IMO with Grierson and many others )  there were several diff. weight standards
and quite sure several provincial mints in operation so it doesn´t make sense to divide into 2 groups only.

Thus, ecoli´s coin is A2 var. 47 and should be around 10 grs. or somewhat lower because of wear.

byzantiumcoins

 

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