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Real or fake Antiochus tetradrachm 3/12

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Rick P:
Hi,

I purchased a number of coins from my stamp dealer. I know some of them are genuine and some are not, I'm a bit of a novice and this represented a large spend for myself. I have 12 coins, any help and opinions are much appreciated. A coin I purchased was politely condemned on here some time ago.

Dimensions: 16.67 grams, 29.3 mm

Many thanks in advance.

djmacdo:
The raised rim around the reverse has me a bit worried.

Curtis JJ:
To The Rick, how do you know that some are genuine and some are fake? I haven't looked through all your posts yet, so I don't know if you shared that info somewhere I can't find. But any bit of context is important, since if they're fake, some would have to be pretty good quality forgeries (from the ones I've looked at). Context and history of a coin matters a lot for ancient coins, whether for adjudicating a coin authentic or knowing which techniques of forgery are likely or even possible. Why did a stamp dealer have these?

Many would be valuable enough to justify the cost/hassle of third-party certification. (I.e., send them to NGC.) I'm not a big fan of slabbing ancient coins in general, but there are situations where the service can be very much worthwhile. This is one of those situations.


--- Quote from: djmacdo on February 03, 2023, 10:27:53 am ---raised rim around the reverse has me a bit worried.
--- End quote ---

I see what you mean (around 2 - 3 o'clock, I assume). I wonder if that could be one of those photographic artifacts, like the appearance of a casting seam you sometimes get on photos of ancient silver coins?

If these coins are fakes (I've only looked closely at 1 or 2, and quickly at another 3 or 4), the "fabric" is pretty convincing. Could they be museum electrotypes? (I don't see obviously artificial weathering/toning and they don't look cast; if pressed, the dies look good).

That said, I've seen enough convincing fakes that I always want to rely at least partly on the context (where did they all come from, when, from whom, one purchase or one-at-a-time...). But it sounds like that information may be unavailable.

I'd send to NGC if I had no good reason to believe most fake.

Rick P:
Thank you Curtis JJ and Djmacdo,

The reverse in concave, I believe that's why the image looks like that, there is marks around the rim.

I also collect stamps (amongst many other things) and one of my dealers knows that I have an interest in coins. The "story" is that there was a colossal amount of stamps and the dealer is also dealing with other items in the estate such as coins, paper money and cigarette cards. He did research these and they were priced appropriately, for example the Leontini tetradrachm cost £4,900, the Messana tetradrachm cost £4,500, the Aegina was £350 and £200 - £300 for the Alexander types. I've picked for more information but it will not be given to me at this time, I have been through coinarchives as some of the higher value coins should have a records, especially the Sicilian coins, but I can not find anything.

I know Roman coins reasonably well, and I can spot badly cast coins reasonably easy, even "well-cast" or pressed coins usually have examples in the fake coin reports. A few obvious coins (casting bubbles and seams) were immediately condemned by myself, a Bolskan drachm, Lysimachus Tet and some early Roman coppers. I should submit these to the fake coin reports but I didn't think to image them. 

I won't mention the dealer but they have been in business for over 30 years and I have been a customer for 15 of those. They are honest and will stand by any errors. I'm not worried about dealing with a shyster.

I think sending the coins to NGC may be the option however I have had NGC coins come back as "No Decision".

Thanks for your help though, especially in the Aegina post!

Din X:
The Antiochos tetradrachm is most likely a Beirut forgery.
I have several Beirut forgeries in my collection and some authentic Antiochos Tetradrachms and I know how to identify them easily.
They are pressed so the planchet has everywhere the same thickness.
And there are many other problems but I do not want to tell.
The Reverse die is condemed by IAPN due to a Hybrid, this Antiochos Reverse die with an obverse die of Lysimachos.
This fake exist with damaged beads and not damaged beads, the damaged beads are due a die break in the modern obverse die.
I have one but with not damaged beads, earlier die state before the die broke there.

The Massana Tetradrachm and Leontinoi Tetradrachm do not look good (likely transfer die fakes), I would send them to an authentication service.

IBSCC Bulletin on Counterfeits BOCS Vol 4 No.2/3 1979 Page 42

http://forgerynetwork.com/asset.aspx?id=xclrlBYD1Ng=

and correct die combination

IBSCC Bulletin on Counterfeits BOCS Vol 4 No.2/3 1979 Page 42

http://forgerynetwork.com/asset.aspx?id=1coOBOSQGQE=

Picture 1+2 bulletin

below sold by auction houses better pcitures of these fake

Some of my Beirut forgeries.

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