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Author Topic: Phoenix on globe for Constantius Gallus  (Read 3415 times)

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Offline curtislclay

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Phoenix on globe for Constantius Gallus
« on: November 13, 2016, 10:35:04 pm »
D N CONSTANTI - VS NOB CAES, bare-headed bust r.

FEL TEMP REPARATIO around, ANI in exergue, radiate phoenix standing r. on globe, star in r. field.

17 mm, 2.03 g, axis 5 h. RIC Antioch 137A (R4), recording officina Z=7 only, in BM. Ex Lanz, eBay, 24 Sept. 2016; his photos below.

This Phoenix on globe rev. type, or its variant Phoenix on pile of rocks, is common for Constantius II and Constans at multiple mints across the empire, but was unknown for Constantius Gallus in the older standard catalogues, for example Cohen, Late Roman Bronze Coinage, and Bruck's Spätrömische Kupferprägung.

In RIC VIII (1981), however, Kent was able to publish such a coin, from Antioch, officina Z=7, from the BM collection, apparently a recent acquisition, as indicated by its A number in RIC (137A), and the absence of this type for Gallus in the earlier catalogues. Perhaps Kent knew a second specimen too, since he rates the type R4 rather than R5. My recent acquisition adds a second officina, I=10, for the same coin.

Kent projects 15 officinae for this type at Antioch, since Gallus' other types at Antioch were indeed all struck in 15 officinae. But Antioch struck all of the FEL TEMP REPARATIO types, including this Phoenix on globe type for Constantius II and Constans, in 10 officinae only (RIC p. 522). So I would postulate that the Phoenix on globe type was struck for Gallus too in only 10 officinae. Officinae 11-15 projected by Kent will probably never turn up.

Not being particularly familiar with late Roman coinage, I was supposing that the order of the FEL TEMP REPARATIO types at each of the imperial mints would be well established, and that the new Phoenix on globe type for Gallus at Antioch would be easy to fit in. Apparently not, however! Kent in his introduction to Antioch has nothing to say about the significance of the appearance of this type for Gallus at Antioch, though he does note that the portrait of Gallus is early, with short hair. About the sequence of FEL TEMP REPARATIO types at another mint, Siscia, he has this to say: "At first glance, the FEL TEMP REPARATIO issue presents an inextricable confusion of types and mint-marks....A very detailed study, which it is to be hoped will one day be undertaken, is required to establish the sequence of the marks and the relationship between the various denominations."

To stick to basics, then: the Phoenix on globe type was struck in considerable volume for Constans, so was probably introduced at least a year or so before that emperor's death in January 350.

At Antioch, the new coins show that the type certainly remained in use at least for some short time after 15 March 351, when Gallus was proclaimed Caesar.

Maybe other Forvm members can tell us more!
Curtis Clay

Offline OldMoney

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Re: Phoenix on globe for Constantius Gallus
« Reply #1 on: November 14, 2016, 10:07:51 am »
Nice pick up!

I had a friend (sadly passed-away) who was after one of
these for quite some time (among a number of other LRBCs).

Walter
Coins of Ephesus
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Walter Holt's Old Money - Ancient Coins
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Offline curtislclay

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Re: Phoenix on globe for Constantius Gallus
« Reply #2 on: November 14, 2016, 10:50:28 am »
I had a friend (sadly passed-away) who was after one of
these for quite some time.

Walter,

You're implying that his search was unsuccessful, right? Your friend never found such a coin?

Curtis

Curtis Clay

Offline Vincent

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Re: Phoenix on globe for Constantius Gallus
« Reply #3 on: November 14, 2016, 03:18:33 pm »
Rick Morton had a website of his collection named Capitoline Coins and had a couple of Gallus Phoenix in his collection, which he has sold. The website is no longer up, but perhaps someone has a pic stored on their computer.
If my memory serves me right, they were from Antioch. I may still have his email address and ask him,  if I'm able.  Iif he replies and sends the pics,  Ill post them.
He did stress they were RARE.

Offline akeady

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Re: Phoenix on globe for Constantius Gallus
« Reply #4 on: November 14, 2016, 04:33:22 pm »
Unfortunately, while the Wayback Machine did take snapshots of the Capitoline Coins website, it didn't get the photos of the coins in question:

https://web.archive.org/web/20121127202823/http://capitolinecoins.com/mycollection.html

I guess it only followed links to a certain depth and so didn't get the pics of the Gallus coins:

https://web.archive.org/web/20121201011655/http://capitolinecoins.com/gallus.html


Maybe the descriptions are of use -    

Obv: D N CONSTANTI-VS NOB CAES
Rev: FEL TEMP REPARATIO

Antioch Ric 137a c. 351

Ex Forum Ancient Coins, Aiello collection

Obv: D N CONSTANTI-VS NOB CAES
Rev: FEL TEMP REPARATIO

Antioch Ric 137a c. 351

From the G.C. Kumpikevicius collection

Obv: D N CONSTANTI-VS NOB CAES
Rev: FEL TEMP REPARATIO

Constantinople Ric c. 351

Ex Guy Clark



If the first two are the coins Vincent saw, the Forum coin might be traceable here at least.

ATB,
Aidan.

Offline agord

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Re: Phoenix on globe for Constantius Gallus
« Reply #5 on: November 14, 2016, 06:55:49 pm »
I have a Gallus/Phoenix on globe from Constantinople, not listed anywhere that I have found. It can be seen at https://www.forumancientcoins.com/gallery/displayimage.php?pos=-126360

Offline Vincent

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Re: Phoenix on globe for Constantius Gallus
« Reply #6 on: November 14, 2016, 10:17:07 pm »
Thanks agord for the tip

RLA1169. Bronze quarter maiorina, RIC VIII Antioch 137A var. (this variety is only recorded in RIC for officina Z), SRCV V 19009 var. (same), LRBC II -, Cohen VIII-, VF, near black patina highlighted by red earthen fill, weight 2.32 g, maximum diameter 17.8 mm, die axis 180o, 8th officina, Antioch (Antakya, Turkey) mint, 28 Sep 351 - winter 354 A.D.; obverse CONSTANTIVS NOB CAES, bare-headed, draped and cuirassed bust right; reverse FEL TEMP REPARATIO (happy times restored), Phoenix radiate right standing on globe, * right, ANH in exergue; from the Aiello Collection; very rare variant

And the link to the page with plate from forum


https://www.forumancientcoins.com/catalog/roman-and-greek-coins.asp?param=04513q00.jpg&vpar=874&zpg=1152&fld=https://www.forumancientcoins.com/Coins/

Offline curtislclay

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Re: Phoenix on globe for Constantius Gallus
« Reply #7 on: November 14, 2016, 10:52:31 pm »
Thanks for the additions: four new specimens, two from Antioch and two from a second mint, Constantinople; two with pictures!

A new officina for Antioch: now we have the BM's Z=7, Forvm's H=8, and my I=10.
Curtis Clay

Offline agord

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Re: Phoenix on globe for Constantius Gallus
« Reply #8 on: November 14, 2016, 11:55:36 pm »
RIC lists a Gallus/phoenix on mound for Sirmium #27 but I have never seen one.

Offline maridvnvm

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Re: Phoenix on globe for Constantius Gallus
« Reply #9 on: November 15, 2016, 08:25:50 am »
Here is the image of the Forvm coin from their store for reference.


Offline curtislclay

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Re: Phoenix on globe for Constantius Gallus
« Reply #10 on: November 15, 2016, 10:40:30 am »
RIC lists a Gallus/phoenix on mound for Sirmium #27 but I have never seen one.

RIC quotes Fundberichte aus Österreich 1975, p. 221. No plate or figure reference, so presumably without an illustration.

This coin would give a slightly later terminus for the last attested use of the Phoenix type, since the mint of Sirmium is thought to have reopened and begun production for Constantius II and Constantius Gallus only when Magnentius captured Siscia in summer 351.
Curtis Clay

Offline SC

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    • A Handbook of Late Roman Bronze Coin Types 324-395.
Re: Phoenix on globe for Constantius Gallus
« Reply #11 on: November 15, 2016, 09:25:02 pm »
Another example from Constantinople, likely CONS :Greek_Delta: , is shown on wildwinds:

http://wildwinds.com/coins/ric/constantius_gallus/_constantinople_RIC_VIII_093v.jpg

In my research on the FTR types I could not find any image of the Sirmium example quoted in RIC.  The fact that it is reportedly the rocks version, and not the globe version, is of course not surprising as Sirmium, along with Siscia, appear to have only struck that version.

The questions regarding dating are not just raised by the existence of the example from Sirmium, but by the very existence of this type for Gallus. 

This type appears to cease at all other mints prior to Gallus' accession on 15 March 351.  Its appearance for him at a small number of mints would appear to imply one of two things.  Either that the type was in the process of being phased out right around his accession and was thus just struck at a few mints and only in small numbers OR that it ceased to be struck at all mints before March 351 but then was struck at a few mints and in small numbers after a gap of several months.

The former case requires either that we move the re-opening of the mint of Sirmium forward by almost half a year (roughly August to March 351) or that we dismiss the existence of the example from Sirmium.  The latter case requires that we accept that this denomination was re-struck at a few mints sometime around late 351 after not being struck for at least half a year, maybe a full year.

I believe the latter is the case.

If we look at this denomination, which was the smallest of the three FTR denominations introduced in April 348, we see that it has an odd history.  The two FTR types - Galley and Phoenix - were common for the first year or so.  From the mint marks, the Galley type appears to cease before the end of 349.  The Phoenix appears to continue into 350 at most mints, but to have ceased before March 351.  We then have the rare Gallus Phoenix examples from likely 351. 

But there were other types struck in this denominationVetranio introduced a VIRTVS AVGVSTORVM for himself and Constantius II at Siscia.  As this type likely did not outlast Vetranio it was struck sometime in 350.  Vetranio also struck a VIRTVS EXERCITVM type for himself at Thessalonica - likewise struck in 350.  Finally Vetranio introduced a GLORIA ROMANORVM type for himself and Constantius II at Siscia in 350.  However, unlike Vetranio's other two types, this type outlasted him as it was later struck for Gallus and then for Julian (as caesar).  We can't tell if it was struck for Constantius II only once or during each of these three periods as the mints marks are the same.  In any event the type is scarce enough - especially for Julian - that we can assume it was not struck throughout the entire period - i.e. from 350 under Vetranio until after Julian's accession as caesar in November 355.  In fact, due to the decrease in the size of the main FTR denomination, this type was not actually the small denomination when it was struck for Julian, it was the only denomination.  I also think we can be certain that the type was struck for Gallus before the first reduction of the main FTR denomination in November 352.

Looking at this overall, it appears that the small denomination was struck fairly regularly 348 to 350, and then intermittently 350 to 351 or 352.  So while unexplained, the appearance of the Phoenix type for Gallus at a few mints is not inconsistent with the overall pattern of coinage at this time.

Shawn







SC
(Shawn Caza, Ottawa)

Offline OldMoney

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Re: Phoenix on globe for Constantius Gallus
« Reply #12 on: November 15, 2016, 11:00:43 pm »
I had a friend (sadly passed-away) who was after one of
these for quite some time.

Walter,

You're implying that his search was unsuccessful, right?
Your friend never found such a coin?

Curtis

Hi Curtis,

Yes, that is correct. Sorry for the ambiguity.

He wanted to put together a 'study' collection for the
ACANS centre at Macquarie University, and so wanted
as many of the rarer varieties as could be gathered,
regardless of condition.

He managed to get quite a few, but fate intervened
and prevented further progress.

For anyone in Australia, this collection is now resident
at ACANS, and what it lacks in condition, it very much
makes up for in variety and breadth (1360 coins).

Walter Holt
Coins of Ephesus
https://groups.yahoo.com/group/ephesuscoins
Walter Holt's Old Money - Ancient Coins
https://www.oldmoney.com.au
Sydney, Australia

Offline curtislclay

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Re: Phoenix on globe for Constantius Gallus
« Reply #13 on: November 16, 2016, 10:36:31 pm »
Shawn,

Thanks for your interesting ideas.

Certainly in dating the FEL TEMP REPARATIO coins, it is necessary to regard their denominational system, and the possible continuation of the same system with different types by succeeding coinages.

Kent on this smallest denomination in his FEL TEMP REPARATIO article in Num. Chron. 1967, p. 87:

"Of the two AE 3 types, neither is particularly associated with one emperor rather than another, and since the Galley type, found only in the West, always has the early Emperor holding Phoenix variant, and not the later Emperor holding Victory, I conclude that all AE 3s were struck at the start of our period. Had the coinage of AE 3s persisted, I postulate that a special variety for Constantius would have been created. It is noteworthy that at Siscia, the one place where significant numbers of AE 3s were coined in and after 350, two types were created, though their differentiation was imperfect."

Here is the Wildwinds picture of the phoenix type for Gallus at Constantinople, since Wildwinds has blocked, for me at least, direct links like the one you give above.
Curtis Clay

Offline curtislclay

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Re: Phoenix on globe for Constantius Gallus
« Reply #14 on: December 20, 2016, 08:10:27 pm »
By chance I have discovered that another Antioch phoenix AE 3 for Gallus, from new officina Δ=4, was published by Walter Haertl, Jahrbuch f. Num. u. Geldgeschichte XXX, 1980, pp. 15-18, pl. 2.

That was clearly too late to be taken account of by Kent in RIC VIII (1981)!
Curtis Clay

Offline agord

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Re: Phoenix on globe for Constantius Gallus
« Reply #15 on: October 22, 2019, 08:31:41 pm »
I was lucky enough to win this coin today and was reminded me of this old thread.
One more example from Antioch, uncertain officina.

 

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