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Author Topic: Ancient coins and blockchain  (Read 2710 times)

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Offline William S7

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Ancient coins and blockchain
« on: January 08, 2021, 02:14:23 pm »
Imagine if photos of every ancient coin known to humans were uploaded to a central "coinbase" on the internet, along with coded blockchain information showing ownership of the physical coin. The digital wallet and blockchain information would show the pedigree of the coin, and would accompany the coins as they change owners. Over time, the ancient coins could actually become a form of currency again. An amusing thought to consider as Bitcoin surpasses $40,000 as I write. :)


Offline SC

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Re: Ancient coins and blockchain
« Reply #1 on: January 08, 2021, 05:25:57 pm »
I guess in theory you could embed the digitized image of a coin into the blockchain code of a bitcoin or similar e-coin - a sort of reversed steganography.

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Offline William S7

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Re: Ancient coins and blockchain
« Reply #2 on: January 09, 2021, 12:17:24 am »
I mentioned the idea to my wife of "tokenizing" ancient coins and she laughed. She tells me Blockchain is already being used for authentication of diamonds and art.

See: https://www.ibm.com/blogs/industries/how-blockchain-tracks-diamonds-from-mine-to-manufacturer/

See: https://developer.ibm.com/technologies/blockchain/patterns/securing-art-using-blockchain-digital-certificates/

I think it is only a matter of time till blockchain is applied to the establishment of pedigree for ancient coins and/or the purchase of legitimate tokens for the purpose of investment. A really well pedigreed Eid Mar would be a perfect candidate for this experiment.

Its actually quite a fascinating idea lol https://theart.exchange/?utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=blockchain_art&utm_term=%7Bkeyword%7D&utm_content=%7Bcreative%7D&gclid=CjwKCAiAouD_BRBIEiwALhJH6HhJ3byRGwzm2CTuUEpzxNjfAUr8M8YDlR1qeDpEAR1xCeP061HHbRoCZIcQAvD_BwE

Offline William S7

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Re: Ancient coins and blockchain
« Reply #3 on: February 25, 2021, 12:15:25 pm »
Given how digitization and blockchain are transforming aspects of "money" and the economy, I will continue to post relevant links and information on this thread from time to time. I am convinced there is a business opportunity for the digitization and "tokenization" of the ultra-high end and rare ancient coin market.

https://www.axios.com/nft-digital-crypto-art-de03ee9f-9819-4d53-bb11-8e03c415f0f9.html

Offline William S7

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Re: Ancient coins and blockchain
« Reply #4 on: March 30, 2021, 01:20:38 pm »
I wonder if crypto payment for auctioned ancient coins is coming soon for some auction houses? Such a development would likely make world news and possibly give ancient coin collecting a boost (short term anyway).

See: https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/other/baseball-cards-go-crypto-as-auction-houses-warm-to-new-currency/ar-BB1f7iNQ

Offline Joe Sermarini

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Re: Ancient coins and blockchain
« Reply #5 on: March 30, 2021, 01:49:09 pm »
There is already at least one ancient coin auction house/shop that accepts bitcoin. But how payments can be made in some other seller's shop is not a suitable topic for this discussion board.
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Offline William S7

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Re: Ancient coins and blockchain
« Reply #6 on: March 30, 2021, 02:20:12 pm »
No offence intended. I am far more interested in how blockchain can be used as an authentication tool for ancient coins and the establishment of pedigree. It really seems like an idea whose time has come.

Offline esnible

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Re: Ancient coins and blockchain
« Reply #7 on: April 13, 2021, 10:00:58 pm »
I looked into this a few years ago: https://digitalhn.blogspot.com/2018/02/recording-provenance-in-blockchain.html

I would be curious to know if anyone has taken things further in the last few years.  I haven't seen anything beyond what was being suggested then.

Offline William S7

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Re: Ancient coins and blockchain
« Reply #8 on: May 10, 2021, 01:15:52 pm »
The collector's market for NFT's known as "moments" seems to be taking off. The NBA supports the trade in NFT video clips, the most expensive are of Lebron James (see: https://nbatopshot.com/listings/p2p/a494c64e-9e93-418c-8934-f331ee47a39b+768166e3-f4bb-4395-9b48-4c545aebc95c ). I wonder if ancient coins could be similarly turned into "moments", perhaps incorporating a 360 degree high definition video of the coin, along with some rudimentary history about the known pedigree of the coin and/or the historical context during which the coin was made. It could add an entertaining dimension to the hobby, and contribute to the investment aspect of coin collecting. I think this idea would most suit coins that are in very fine to excellent condition, are very rare, and of historic significance. I think the various Eid Mar coins around would be the perfect candidate as a trial for the concept.

Offline Joe Sermarini

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Re: Ancient coins and blockchain
« Reply #9 on: May 10, 2021, 03:04:12 pm »
I wouldn't pay a penny for a coin NFT. 
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Offline Altamura

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Re: Ancient coins and blockchain
« Reply #10 on: May 11, 2021, 03:21:51 am »
The idea of NFTs comes from the art market and is an attempt to save th notion of "original" into the digital world.

Usually an original has been something physical like paint on a canvas and existed exactly once. When artists begin to create their art on the computer, then each copy of it is basically not distinguishable from the "original", they are all looking equal.
For the art market this is bad, because an original sells much better than a copy. So they invented the NFT to recreate an original which in the digital world in principle does not exist.

To do this with videos of coins in my opinion would be a step even more crazy. You image a unique object (the physical original) into a digital depiction and then sell the one and only original of this digital depiction of a unique physical object? Then there is one who owns the physical coin, one who owns the "original" video of it (or even more, they already began to split up these NFTs into shares) and lots of others who can see the video (without being the owner of the "original" video)  ???.

In my eyes this NFT hype is just about making money and vanity (to be able to tell others that you own it).

Regards

Altamura


Offline SC

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Re: Ancient coins and blockchain
« Reply #11 on: May 11, 2021, 07:36:26 am »
Reminds me of people who think they own a star because they payed some company for it.......

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Offline Meepzorp

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Re: Ancient coins and blockchain
« Reply #12 on: May 11, 2021, 11:23:49 am »
Reminds me of people who think they own a star because they payed some company for it.......

SC

Hi otl,

That is similar to when someone was selling "deeds" for portions of the surface of the Moon several years ago. :)

Meepzorp

Offline Meepzorp

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Re: Ancient coins and blockchain
« Reply #13 on: May 11, 2021, 11:54:23 am »
Hi folks,

To be perfectly honest with everyone, this is all new to me. I had never heard of an NFT before reading this topic. I didn't know what it was. I just looked it up in Wikipedia. That shows you how "out of the loop" I am.

The whole concept doesn't make sense to me. Why would someone want to pay so much money for something that is digital (or digitized) when those types of things are so easily copied and the human eye can't tell the difference between an original digital image and a copy?

We are not talking about actual physical objects here. That's a different story.

There are genuine ancient coins (including contemporary imitations), there are Cavino-type Renaissance medals (including later cast copies), and there are modern counterfeits. Obviously, those are 3 different things.

Someone can own an original, unrestored 1968 Ford Mustang Shelby GT500. Someone can own a restored 1968 Ford Mustang Shelby GT500 (that came from Shelby's customizing shop in 1968 as a Shelby GT500). And someone can own a 1968 Ford Mustang Fastback that just last year was restored and customized by a customizing shop to look like a 1968 Ford Mustang Shelby GT500 (yes, there are companies that do that). Obviously, those are 3 different things.

But why would someone want to pay money to own an original digital image? That is so bizarre to me.

However, getting back to the original post (and concept) in this topic, that is an intriguing idea. Someone can use images of ancient coins as a form of cryptocurrency. Why not? The understanding I have is that Bitcoin is nothing more than a bundle of public domain files.

Meepzorp

Offline esnible

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Re: Ancient coins and blockchain
« Reply #14 on: May 11, 2021, 08:45:07 pm »
Quote from: Meepzorp on May 11, 2021, 11:54:23 am
The whole concept doesn't make sense to me. Why would someone want to pay so much money for something that is digital (or digitized) when those types of things are so easily copied and the human eye can't tell the difference between a original digital image and a copy?

Collectors of first-edition novels pay more, sometimes much more, for first printings.

I don't understand it.

Book collecting guides tell new collectors to check the page and look for "10 9 8 7 6 5 4 3 2 1" instead of "10 9 8 7 6 5 4 3 2".

It isn't about the eye.

Offline William S7

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Re: Ancient coins and blockchain
« Reply #15 on: August 14, 2021, 04:47:06 pm »
This topic of NFT's, Blockchain, and collectable artwork continues to evolve: https://dnyuz.com/2021/08/14/teens-cash-in-on-the-nft-art-boom/

I recently experimented with VR (virtual reality); with the coming "spatial web" or "metaverse" I am sure we will hear more about NFT's. Those of you with high value "mint condition" coins should look into making high definition 3-d scans for the purpose of making your own NFT's, and cash in on this trend.

Offline Virgil H

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Re: Ancient coins and blockchain
« Reply #16 on: August 16, 2021, 01:09:05 am »
I understand why a first edition is more valuable than a later edition. For a collector, not a reader. I wouldn't pay for an NFT of anything, but I am old and not up with the times. I also have no interest in digital anything as far as art or music is concerned. I do have a small amount of Bitcoin, so I am not a total Luddite). Consider this, and it applies to anything digital if it is on the cloud or from a place like ITunes and even to media you physically own.

You buy a music song or album. You have a huge collection. Albums you can still play. Even 8-tracks if you have a player (and they are still around). Reel to reel is still around, as are cassettes. CDs are still sold new. I know many people who have converted their physical music to digital and discarded their physical. Others have never owned physical media. If you die, you cannot leave ITunes music to your heirs. I guess you can if they have the password and keep paying storage fees or whatever. That is all temporary, in any case. But, you get my point. You don't really own it. Apple does. Amazon owns the Kindle book you paid for while my bookshelves are full of real books I paid for. Even if you control the cloud account (you really don't ever totally control any digital account), it will disappear eventually. Tape lasts a lot longer, so do CDs. Albums last the longest. In the digital world, ownership is totally different and often illusory compared to the physical world.

All this is to say, I like physical things for anything I value. Like music, I still buy CDs or albums, never digital music. Like art. It is the same with coins. Why would I want an ancient coin I can't hold? There are some ancient coins I will never hold or own, but I still don't want one unless it is to see a picture of it. I am surely not paying for it. I have lost literally tens of thousands of words I have written online that are gone forever. My notebooks and, to a lesser extent, my word processor/text editor files will last longer, my hand written notebooks the longest unless there is a fire or when I die and they all get tossed in the trash or maybe someone will keep them and be interested years later. No one will ever see my digital files after I am gone except for possibly the immediate computer check after I die (I have been through this scenario before, those files are usually not even looked at at all, there are just too many and file names usually make no sense), This applies to so many things, but I would apply it to my coin collection, as well.

Give me a physical coin or no coin at all.

Regards,
Virgil

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Re: Ancient coins and blockchain
« Reply #17 on: August 16, 2021, 09:10:05 am »
Virgil, I couldn't agree more. But then I am not young any more either.

Alex

Offline shanxi

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Re: Ancient coins and blockchain
« Reply #18 on: August 16, 2021, 10:50:41 am »
Amazon owns the Kindle book you paid for while my bookshelves are full of real books I paid for. Even if you control the cloud account (you really don't ever totally control any digital account), it will disappear eventually.

I agree if we talk about a coin reference book. I love to have them in my shelf. But for e.g. a crime story. I read it in two days and then it blocks my shelf for the next few decades without ever being opened again. I don't need this.


I still buy CDs or albums, never digital music

The times where you bought a single digital music album are over. Today it's streaming.
I am a kind of hifi nerd, and I love streaming. I have "Tidal HIFI" streaming. Most of the recordings are the original master tapes without compression, the sound quality much better than CD.
And I can listen to all the new and old music, classic, jazz, pop.  Yes, I do not own a piece of plastic with the music on it, but it doesn't matter. I also  do not own the music I hear in a concert.



Offline Virgil H

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Re: Ancient coins and blockchain
« Reply #19 on: August 17, 2021, 11:18:04 pm »
Shanxi,

Totally agree on the crime novel comment. Those I read on Kindle and never see them again. I stand corrected on that one. Any book I value at all, I buy physical. I still buy digital CDs and sometimes albums, including newly produced albums. I do this mainly because I will not listen to music on a computer, so I do not stream, other than videos from time to time and I don't care about quality with a video. I recall a number of years ago I realized I had stopped listening to music. I realized it coincided with the advent of digital music. I reset up my stereo, including my 1966 Fischer XP10 speakers. I realized that digital music sounds like crap and that is why I stopped listening (and the issue is the speakers, not the fact they are digital). I started listening again and I credit the speakers. Now, if I knew how to stream to those speakers, maybe I would try it. But, I couldn't stream anything when I lived in a rural area with only satellite Internet and only have been able to even consider that because I moved into the town where cable is available. Huge parts of the US do not have high speed Internet with no bandwidth restrictions. When I lived rural, three or four youtube videos would eat up my entire bandwidth for a month that cost $150.00. I have gone so far as to download Grateful Dead shows and then burned them to CD so I didn't have to listen on the computer. No streaming for me.

Virgil

Offline shanxi

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Re: Ancient coins and blockchain
« Reply #20 on: August 18, 2021, 02:28:15 am »
This  is going Off-Topic now  ;D

What you need for streaming is of course bandwith, especially if you stream high res audio files or the master recordings.

For the connection you also need a Hi-Res Musik-Streamer  I am using currently a "Bluesound Node 2i " streamer, connected to my NaimNAC/Dynaudio system. This streamer is quite good but maybe I will upgrade it.

Now, in fact, most important for the music quality is not the equipment, but the quality of the original master recordings. Even today some recordings are unbelievable bad.  ??? On the other hand there are 50 year old recordings which are excellent.


Offline Virgil H

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Re: Ancient coins and blockchain
« Reply #21 on: August 25, 2021, 02:30:45 am »
Agree that the master is important. But the single most important thing is speakers. Without good speakers, it doesn't matter how good the master is. A great master still sounds like crap with bad speakers. Which is why I stopped listening on a computer. I know I could spend a ton and get a system that might sound good from my computer, but I don't have that kind of money and, if I did, I would buy coins and still burn to CD and listen on my ancient speakers.

Virgil

 

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