Greek Lamp or Lekythos or neither

[superflex]

Hi all,

I am quite worried about the authenticity of this item my better half purchased for me as a gift. The description apparently was a Greek lamp 1st c BC, it is 9 cm high and 8.5 in diameter. The depictions are a satyr face and dolphins circling.   

There appears to be initials I G within the pottery, it appears to be something like a collectors mark i am guessing. There seems to be signs of reattaching the handle also.

The thing is i have been unable to locate another similar example. I have no idea where it is from and i doubt it is a lamp. It looks more like a small lekythos.

If anyone can provide some information i would be grateful.

[superflex]

more

[HELEN S]

 is that a face on the base of the vase WOW 

[areich]

It looks like a modern trinket for tourists.

[superflex]

It looks like a modern trinket for tourists.

How do you reach that conclusion -


I think the best way is finding another piece i can compare to -

From my research it seems that the time period that it is from apparently  was under heavy roman influence. The characteristics of the style seem to reflect that.

I am going to the library tomorrow and borrowing all greek/roman pottery sources for 100bc period  

Keep in mind it was purchased from a 'reputable seller' who does sell hundreds of pieces a year without any complaints, while that carries little weight it is better than buying it from a stall on a holiday vacation. It does have money back guarantee if it is proven non authentic, as it should anyway.

I am thinking of getting it carbon dated if there is no other means of verification, but worried about the damage it will cause.

Also i was thinking today the initials inside are puzzling. Why would someone mark a replica with their initials. Might that suggest it was important enough to be marked as a piece in someones personal collection.

Anyone else with an idea?

[benito]

I agree with Areich.Style,surfaces,"patina" look wrong. Carbon test useless. You could try TL but it doesn't come cheap.

[superflex]

I agree with Areich.Style,surfaces,"patina" look wrong. Carbon test useless. You could try TL but it doesn't come cheap.

TL will set me back $300 AUS, but worth it. Local university provides the service.

I was reading a couple of websites that say if it is heavy or proportions seem off like lob-sided it is very likely  fake. It is very light and it seems in proportion...

[benito]

Bought from Sadigh Gallery by any chance ?

[superflex]

No, but i will find out tomorrow specifics. My partner had checked the fake sellers list on here prior to the purchase and she said it checked out. I hope her surprise gift isn't ruined by this, but it is the thought that counts 

I'm not convinced it is a fake though, need harder proof.

[Akropolis]

"Keep in mind it was purchased from a 'reputable seller' "

It is clearly not an oil lamp....which you say the seller described it as.
So I don't know how an incompetent seller can be described as "reputable."

In fact, that error could be a legitimate basis for demanding a full refund.

Don't "throw good money after bad."
PeteB

[areich]

Pete hit the nail right on the head. Does 'reputable' mean good Ebay feedback?

[superflex]

She didn't say eBay, but Im guessing. Unless she came across a website. I'll find out later today, and your completely right about the false description. I just don't know if that was the actual discription the person had listed first hand.

[superflex]

Pete hit the nail right on the head. Does 'reputable' mean good Ebay feedback?

Thank you for your insights so far,

Okay i have an update. It was unfortunately brought of eBay, she is devastated about all this.  

It was described as a possible rare greek lamp c100bc.

She emailed the seller i have the exact reply below:

"Hi,
I can send you sertificate of authenticy for this item.It was found in the Balkans and I bought it from dealer in Germqany.The patina may look different becaouse I used Renecance Pasta to preserve it.I can asure you item is authentic as described.
Regards

[REMOVED BY ADMIN]

Seems to be based out of UK. Trading since 2004 and not on the list ? If he is a fraud he has been getting away with it for a while.


, Please have a look and give your opinion if it all seems too dodgy, all elements considering.

[superflex]

Any further insights ?   

[HELEN S]

 he certainly offers a guarantee

Visit our [REMOVED BY ADMIN] to see more great items from [REMOVED BY ADMIN]
Guaranteed Authenticity
 
 We offer a diverse and changing range of high-quality Greek, Roman, Medieval works of art. Our acquisition policy adheres to strict ethical, archaeological and aesthetic criteria. Our antiquities are of legal provenance; they belonged to established collections or have been purchased in the art market. All items have been fully researched and are sold with an unconditional Guarantee of Authenticity. We also guarantee absolute discretion and confidentiality.
Every item purchased comes with our lifetime unconditional guarantee of authenticity

IF REQUESTING A CERTIFICATE PLEASE DO SO AT THE TIME OF PAYMENT.
 
Provide collectors of antiquities with quality pieces at reasonable prices.

[rover1.3]

Please do not name sellers unless they are on Forum's Notorious Fake Seller List.
Sellers that have been identified as Notorious Fake Sellers are listed here: https://www.forumancientcoins.com/board/index.php?topic=18502.0.  
If you suspect a seller is a fraud, you can nominate him for the NFSL. A nomination includes the sellers eBay ID and a link to their item list on eBay.

[HELEN S]

Please do not name sellers unless they are on Forum's Notorious Fake Seller List.
Sellers that have been identified as Notorious Fake Sellers are listed here: https://www.forumancientcoins.com/board/index.php?topic=18502.0.  

 sorry for that i thought it was a positive thing for the seller not a negative one

[rover1.3]

A positive comment about a seller is an endorsement for the seller, which is not permitted here. FORVM is a shop.

[HELEN S]

A positive comment about a seller is an endorsement for the seller, which is not permitted here. FORVM is a shop.

 i must say i am sorry and can quite see your point rover but was trying to give the owner a glimmer of hope that at least if proven fake he would be entitled to his money back
 the seller had already been named in a previous post so i did not realise that it would present a problem
 it was a lovely thing his partner did and a shame if it does turn out to be fake i hope she doent feel too bad

[superflex]

"FORVM is a shop"



I would hate to think that's the only way you can describe this great site.

And the only way to give a better opinion on a seller's reliability is looking at their store.

I doubt anyone would be looking to buy from that store if questions are being asked.

But i understand  the conflict of interest, but maybe it should be clarified somewhere like a rules guide (i may be blind but i haven't seen one  ).

Thanks Helen  .

For anyone following this thread, i have launched a dispute. He has offered a refund on receiving the return, ebay policy.

After showing my university professors, other online experts and your helpful insights the evidence is balance of probabilities that it is a fake.

Looking at other clues like the fact it was sent poorly packaged covered in a small pile of newspaper, probably was an early tip off.

LT testing might confirm, but i don't think it's worth $300 when the item cost a little more than that.

Seller remains convinced it is real.   

I will submit a report so the staff can look through his site and evaluate whether he is a new addition on the top 100 fraud billboard charts. 

[areich]

I looked at his offerings and nothing looked obviously fake. He had coins and maybe small metal items and fibulae, no ceramics. I think it's not so much a fraudulent seller as one who buys whatever people offer him and resells it. I would not buy high-priced ancient artifacts from any but the most reputable and competent sellers. The kind of seller that will get competent help before selling something he doesn't know enough about to authenticate himself.

[rover1.3]

A positive comment about a seller is an endorsement for the seller, which is not permitted here. FORVM is a shop.

"FORVM is a shop"

I would hate to think that's the only way you can describe this great site.

But i understand  the conflict of interest, but maybe it should be clarified somewhere like a rules guide (i may be blind but i haven't seen one   ).

My presence and my contribution here plus the fact I am a global moderator and a discussion board administrator are good indicators on how I see this discussion board.

I know very well how great the discussion board is, but yes, FORVM is a shop. The discussion board is hosted by FORVM ANCIENT COINS.


NO SELLING OR ENDORSEMENTS ON THIS BOARD.  No endorsements or selling on this board.  If you name a dealer or link to a dealer that is not FORVM or a Procurator Monetae, your post will be deleted.  This prohibition includes auction websites and anywhere else coins are sold.  Naming a venue or dealer in your post is considered an endorsement.

https://www.forumancientcoins.com/board/index.php?topic=18398.0



TO ALL: There are sets of rules stickied at the top of the boards for all members to read and consider before posting.
These rules exist to promote the fair use of the boards. Some of these rules exist to help preventing confusion.
'DO NOT NAME DEALERS' (exceptions described) is one of the rules of the discussion board and it applies to all sub-boards. The rules are rules and there is no other way but to follow them.

There are other, unwritten but equally important rules to consider and comply with. There is no need to write them down, they are dictated by what we call common sense.

Please, read the rules, follow common sense, dedicate a little time and think before you post.

[Strobilus]

This item is not ancient, let alone a lamp  - nor is it strictly even a fake (since it is a fantasy piece that bears little resemblance to any genuine antiquity). It is simply a modern tourist souvenir that has been superficially "aged".

It was a nice gesture from your partner but the dealer who sold it really needs to get his act together.

[superflex]

Thanks for the final comments Strobilus and ariech 


Item on the way back, hopefully a refund will shortly follow. I told my partner not to worry about it and it was a great gesture. I suggested we just go to dinner together with the refund, she is stubborn though. She wants to get me an authentic piece and will not rest  until she achieves her goal.   

So keep posted, i am sure before we go through with the next purchase i'll be asking for your kind help again !

I'll make sure no dealer links, names or any other data trails are available next time. Only JPEGS; uploaded, not linked.