Probus, my Gallery and a question

[gordian_guy]

I have decided to create a gallery to show off my coins and have started with my Probus collection. I have uploaded 5 coins so far. The following example https://www.forumancientcoins.com/gallery/displayimage.php?pos=-106855 has me asking a couple of questions,

1) What is the real difference between Alfoldi Type 59 and Type 60.
2) The decorated shield, Pegasus left and other decorations is closer to no 10, but no 10 has no helmet. I have not seen a no 14 as Alfoldi would depict it. Does someone have an example??

c.rhodes

[maridvnvm]

Type 59  - Roma seated left, adjacent to columns right
Type 60 - Roma seated left, in center of temple

No example here but:-

Radiate, helmeted, cuirassed bust left, holding spear and shield. Shield decorated with Pegasus or griffin right. is correct for Type 14 //XXIP, 15 //XXIT.

Regards,
Martin

[gordian_guy]

Martin,

Interesting that there are types with griffin on shield, I would like to see that, but my question, vis a vie my example, is that the shield decoration is more in line with no 10 and not no 14, but 14 has the helmeted bust and 10 does not. So, if one is keeping with the detail that Alfoldi has shown then my example is not listed - by his detail, though he may be lumping shield types together under no 14.

Thank you

c.rhodes

[curtislclay]

Despite Martin's hint, I am unable to see any difference between Alföldi's drawings for his Types 59 and 60.

[gordian_guy]

One can see the difference and I saw the difference before I asked the question but it didn't seem to justify a different type number so I kept looking for something distinct that would separate the two, but apparently closeness to the columns on the right is the difference.

c.rhodes

[curtislclay]

I just looked in the new Hiland-Oliva book on the coinage of Probus, by two advanced French collectors (not academics).

According to them, p. 133, the difference is that Roma sits above a shield in one type, but the shield is absent in the other type.

That I can see, though Alföldi's drawing of 60, without shield, is not very clear: 59 with shield, 60 without shield.

I don't think "nearness to the columns" could be a criterion for separating types!

[gordian_guy]

That is interesting given that for type 59 there are only 5 examples and they have XXIV or XXIVI in the exergue and there  are many more for 60, including my example (though I am still interested in opinions on the shield decoration on the obverse) and my example shows what looks clearly like a shield, unless it is something else??

c.rhodes

[curtislclay]

Looking again, Hiland-Oliva describe only one type with Roma holding globe, namely with shield below seat, like your coin.

The type where they don't mention the shield has Roma holding a Victory, i.e. Alföldi's Type 61, which according to his drawing does have the shield!

They omit Alföldi's Type 62, Roma seated frontally within temple.

So the omission of shield may be a false clue, and if so I still don't understand the difference between Types 59 and 60!