Classical Numismatics Discussion
  Welcome Guest. Please login or register. All Items Purchased From Forum Ancient Coins Are Guaranteed Authentic For Eternity!!! Explore Our Website And Find Joy In The History, Numismatics, Art, Mythology, And Geography Of Coins!!! Expert Authentication - Accurate Descriptions - Reasonable Prices - Coins From Under $10 To Museum Quality Rarities Welcome Guest. Please login or register. Internet challenged? We Are Happy To Take Your Order Over The Phone 252-646-1958 Explore Our Website And Find Joy In The History, Numismatics, Art, Mythology, And Geography Of Coins!!! Support Our Efforts To Serve The Classical Numismatics Community - Shop At Forum Ancient Coins

New & Reduced


Author Topic: Coins of Constantine II as Augustus  (Read 2796 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Massanutten

  • Guest
Coins of Constantine II as Augustus
« on: May 08, 2005, 11:53:40 am »
   This question has been rattling around in the empty spaces of my skull for some time and needs to get out.  Has anyone noticed how difficult it is to find coins of Constantine II after he was made Augustus?  The question at first may seem odd because his coins as Caesar are rather abundant.  For such a popular collecting area (i.e. the dynasty of Constantine the Great), there are only three coins of C2 as Aug represented in the Forum members gallery.  This compares to 62 for Constans as Aug and 98 for Constantius II
    Now I know, Constantine II only served for three years as Augustus before falling victim to fratricide and that his brothers served for 13 and 24 years respectively.  But I don't think that completely explains it.  During this time he had some thirteen mints that produced his coin.  Compare this to Magnentius who also served for only 3 years with maybe half that number of mints, there are 3X as many coins of his to be found in the members gallery.
    I actually wonder if his coins were suppressed after his defeat by Constans.  Anyone else have some thoughts on this subject?
Respecfully, Bob

Offline Robert_Brenchley

  • Procurator Caesaris
  • Caesar
  • ****
  • Posts: 7307
  • Honi soit qui mal y pense.
    • My gallery
Re: Coins of Constantine II as Augustus
« Reply #1 on: May 08, 2005, 01:52:55 pm »
I wonder why he's have suppressed his coins as Augustus and not his coins as Caesar? But you're right, it is odd. There are plenty of Augusti who ruled for no longer, whose issues are far easier to find.
Robert Brenchley

My gallery: https://www.forumancientcoins.com/gallery/index.php?cat=10405
Fiat justitia ruat caelum

Offline *Alex

  • Tribunus Plebis 2022
  • Procurator Monetae
  • Caesar
  • *****
  • Posts: 2145
  • Etiam Iovis omnibus placere non possunt.
Re: Coins of Constantine II as Augustus
« Reply #2 on: May 08, 2005, 04:25:54 pm »
 I have two coins of Constantine II as Augustus, but they are such small insignificant things that I can't get a half-decent scan even though the coins themselves are quite reasonable "in hand". The type with the legend "VIC CONSTANTINE etc" is easy to identify as Constantine II but the "GLORIA EXERCITUS" can be readily confused with those of Constantine I and I believe that that is the problem. There are probably far more Constantine II's out there than you think, it is just that they have been mis-identified as Constantine I.

Alex.  ;D

Massanutten

  • Guest
Re: Coins of Constantine II as Augustus
« Reply #3 on: May 08, 2005, 05:16:00 pm »
   I don't think his coins as Caesar would have been so troublesome that they would have been suppressed. Maybe better times?     
   Would take a lot of work to find coins misattributed to C1.  I would expect some, but not really much.   
   I did go over to Wildwinds.  I could find only four Ae coins attributed to C2 as Augustus!  There was also one Solidus.  Very, very strange. 

Offline *Alex

  • Tribunus Plebis 2022
  • Procurator Monetae
  • Caesar
  • *****
  • Posts: 2145
  • Etiam Iovis omnibus placere non possunt.
Re: Coins of Constantine II as Augustus
« Reply #4 on: May 08, 2005, 05:47:38 pm »
Hmmmm, looks like you are right Bob and I am wrong  :-X. I just did a quick check on a well known auction site  ::) and didn't find any.

Alex.

Massanutten

  • Guest
Re: Coins of Constantine II as Augustus
« Reply #5 on: May 08, 2005, 05:59:32 pm »
  It is disturbing!!   I cited thirteen mints from David Sear who lists them at his break after C2 was elevated to Augustus.  It would be a pain, but if anyone has RIC VIII, could this be verified?

Offline cscoppa

  • Procurator Caesaris
  • Caesar
  • ****
  • Posts: 540
  • It's off to the races!!!!!!!!!
Re: Coins of Constantine II as Augustus
« Reply #6 on: May 08, 2005, 08:47:55 pm »
From RIC VIII:
Trier, Lyons, Arles, Rome, Aquileia, Siscia, Thessalonica, Heraclea, Constantinople, Nicomedia, Cyzicus, Antioch, Alexandria

Not hard at all I have the mint cities marked with post-it flags for easy finding. I just opened each flag and looked if his name was there.
Chip

PECVNIAE IMPERARE OPORTET NON SERVIRE
Money should be mastered, not served.
https://www.forumancientcoins.com/gallery/thumbnails.php?album=12

Massanutten

  • Guest
Re: Coins of Constantine II as Augustus
« Reply #7 on: May 08, 2005, 09:34:51 pm »
Well Chip,
    There goes that possibility!   Certainly the scarcity is not due to a dearth of mints pumping out his coins.
Bob

Offline Heliodromus

  • Procurator Caesaris
  • Caesar
  • ****
  • Posts: 2176
Re: Coins of Constantine II as Augustus
« Reply #8 on: May 09, 2005, 07:06:37 am »
I can think of a few reasons Constantine II's coins as Augustus may be, or might appear to be, scarce.

1) We are only talking about a short period of time - from becoming Augustus in 337 to being killed in 340: 2-3 years.

2) Constantine II himself only controlled three mints: Trier, Lyon and Arles. One might expect that his brothers (Constans - who he died fighting, and Constantius II), who controlled the other mints, issued less coins for him than for themselves.

3) There was only a single common type issued by Constantine II for himself during the 337-340 time period: Gloria Exercitvs with one standard, a type which had also been issued under Constantine from 335-337. Given that Constantine II shared his fathers name (no more IVN or CAES to distinguish them after he became Augustus), and even adopted his MAX(imus) title, it's common to see coins of his misattributed to Constantine I.

4) Constantine II was also issuing other types which should be added to the total: Vrbs Roma, Constantinopolis, posthumous Constantine quadriga, posthumous Helena Pax Pvblica (not a complete list, but the commoner ones).

Finally, if you look at the Helvetica spreadsheet (which doesn't differentiate between the 335-337 period under Constantine I, or 337-340 under Constantine II) for the Gloria Exercitus one standard type, at Constantine II's Trier, Lyon and Arles mints,  you can see that it's even scarcer for Constantine I than Constantine II, so maybe the output of these mints simply wasn't that great at that time. The type was commoner at Constantius II's mints (Siscia, Thessalonica, Heraclea, Constantinople, Nicomedia, Cyzicus, Antioch, Alexandria), and it might be instructive to compare the marketplace rarity of the type at those mints for Constantius II vs Constantine II as Augustus. Conveniently the type ended in 340, so you don't need to look for anything to identify the time period other than title of Augustus (although you would need to differentiate CI from CII).

Ben

Paul Oatman

  • Guest
Re: Coins of Constantine II as Augustus
« Reply #9 on: May 11, 2005, 11:00:06 pm »
Just a wild thought here.  Is there any chance that he may have gone out of his way to make his coins hard to distinguish from his fathers after Junior became Augustus.  Perhaps as a way of announcing that he was the one and only true heir.  That he like his father was destined to rise above the other tetrarchs... err... I mean brothers to be the new Constantine.  Both Constantines met their destiny riding out to meet an enemy with his stronghold in Rome.  I doubt the parallel was lost on the son.  He got the name.  Why shouldn't he have it all just like his sire?  It would be a great way of asserting his legitimacy.  If it looks like a duck it must be a duck ;).

But this is late Roman coinage were talking about here.  Stylized to the extreme and hard to tell apart "by bust".  You can't make fairly solid arguments like "look how Septimius had a philosphers beard on his busts to emulate Antoninus Pius".  It would be hard to make any type of argument.  Unless someone could find an obverse die match of Daddy C used with a reverse clearly dated to the time of Junior... maybe by mint mark is what I'm thinking about here.

If some of papa's obv dies made it beyond the early days of Junior as AVG it would certainly be interesting and make it hard to sort the son's from the fathers.  Dark plan of Junior... or just lazy celators? ;D

Beyond my skill.  Flawed logic needing correlation to imply causation with people dead for a very long time but still...just a thought.

Paul :)

Offline Rupert

  • Procurator Caesaris
  • Caesar
  • ****
  • Posts: 1993
Re: Coins of Constantine II as Augustus
« Reply #10 on: May 12, 2005, 05:08:15 pm »
If his coins are relatively scarce now (what is correct), it must be because there were fewer of them struck. Withdrawing coins of one single emperor doesn't work. It didn't even work when an emperor was subjected to the maximum penalty, the DAMNATIO MEMORIAE; how many coins of Nero, Domitian, Commodus, Geta do we have? And then to withdraw zillions of small bronze coins whose portrait is virtually identical to that of the other emperors? No sir. Sorry, I don't know the explanation either, but withdrawing the coins from circulation does not seem realistic to me.

Rupert
Ducunt volentem fata, nolentem trahunt.

Offline Vincent

  • Caesar
  • ****
  • Posts: 685
Re: Coins of Constantine II as Augustus
« Reply #11 on: February 08, 2006, 08:36:03 pm »
Hello,
I've been collecting this guy for a while and agree that him as Augustus is a little more challenging.  Recently tough I have been able to find the 1 soldier types on Ebay ( his legend has PF instead of MAX).  There is one mint that is interesting in this regard, Alexandria.   In the confused period after Constantine the Greats death,  this mint gave all three sons the title Maximius (MAX).  I have ones for Constantius and Constans, so Constantine II is one my want list.
Happy Hunting and they are out there, good luck!

Numismatically,
Flavius Vincento

 

All coins are guaranteed for eternity