Doubts on this syracuse bronze coin

[CL]

I recently acquired this bronze coin from Pyrrhos, however, when I handled the coin for the first time it had a foul smell from some kind of oil and also it had 2 yellow patches on the coin (see pictures), 1 on the obverse and 1 on the reverse. When I touched these yellow patches it went from the coin on my fingers. Also,  these yellow patches are surrounded by red patina, the red patina is spread elsewhere on the coin as well, which made me think that this coin could either be artificial patinated or fake maybe?

This is the coin, it weights 9,75g:



What could those yellow patches? Is the coin fake or maybe artificial patinated?

Thank you.

[Lee S]

I don't think your coin has fake patina.... Indeed I'm 99% sure it is fine.... I think it has been over soaked in olive oil and the residue not cleaned off properly.
    Gently brush the coin off with a toothbrush and dish soap under warm water and then be sure to dry the coin thoroughly... ( In an oven at 60c for an hour will do it...)

   If you have some, then seal the still warm coin with microcrystalline wax, leave the wax to dry then buff up to make shiny...

    I only advise the wax because you have some corrosion which goes through the patina to the metal , and sealing after drying will ensure no further problems...

   Nice coin ! 

Lee S.

[Meepzorp]

Hi PM,

Lee is correct. Dealers often soak bronze coins in olive oil.

Meepzorp

[Joe Sermarini]

Coin finder/cleaners sometimes soak coins in Olive oil. I think dealers rarely do. I never do.

[Dominic T]

I also soak myself in olive oil once a week.I can confirm I don’t have those yellow spots when I get off my bath, but at least my wife is telling me for 25 years now that I have a very soft skin...😜
DT

[CL]

Just cleaned it with water and soap and a soft brush, spots are much less (still a little bit there but I didn't want to force too much) and the smell is pretty much gone as well! Thank you guys for the response and i'm glad it has no fake patina.

[Lee S]

Keep going.... You will cause no damage with soap, water and a soft brush... Indeed, as olive oil is slightly acidic, you will be better off removing any traces of the gunk. Try rubbing the soap in by fingertips before brushing... The important thing is to ensure the coin is dried out afterwards.. ( I'm a terrible human , and dry my coins out on the toaster in-between the slots... Occasionally I have to retrieve a coin from the crumb tray, and it's hardly scientific... But it works! )
     Now I'm going to try Dominic's suggestion and soak myself in some Greek extra virgin olive oil and see what it does for my patina!
   Have a great weekend!

Lee S.

[Meepzorp]

Coin finder/cleaners sometimes soak coins in Olive oil. I think dealers rarely do. I never do.

Hi Joe,

Many years ago, when I first started collecting ancient coins, I was told by 2 different ancient coin dealers on different occasions that they often soaked their bronze coins in olive oil before offering them for sale or photographing them. I assumed that the practice was more widespread.

Maybe they obtained more uncleaned coins? I do know that these particular dealers obtained many "recently found" coins and "hoard material" coins (coins that were never owned by a modern human). They also purchased many bulk lots and then sold each coin individually. These particular dealers rarely took previously owned individual coins on consignment. Maybe the type of material they were acquiring explains why they were doing the olive oil soakings instead of a finder/cleaner?

Maybe today's dealers are acquiring more "previously owned" coins?

Meepzorp

[Joe Sermarini]

Soaking in olive oil is a cleaning method, so would more likely be used for dirty coins/new finds. The number of uncleaned coins on the market today is a small fraction of what it once was. I think soaking in olive oil has declined in popularity, even for cleaning dirty coins.

Everything I handle is "previously owned," either consigned by collectors or dealers, or occasionally purchased by me from other dealers. Some of the coins I receive may be fairly recent finds, but certainly not most and none that I know with any certainty.

[CL]

OMG! What has happened to my coin, after cleaning it with water and soap, drying and sealing it in, it looks like this now 2 days later.
What has happened? It looks absolutely hideous now, how can I remove that orange stuff? Is it corrossion? I wish I have not cleaned it now, I regret it a lot, I need help.

The coin is absolutely totally ruined.



 

[Joe Sermarini]

Either it was not ordinary soap, the coin had an artificial patina, and/or you are looking at it/photographing it in different light. It looked better green but I would not say it is ruined.

[areich]

These Syracuse bronzes are often painted green. They are often manipulated in different ways, of which painting is one of the more harmless ones. Of course, the paint may also hide problems, like bronze disease.

[Meepzorp]

Hi folks,

Areich is 100% correct, and I have a "smoking gun" to prove both of his points.

As evidence of this, look at this Syracuse coin (scroll down, fourth coin):

https://www.forumancientcoins.com/meepzorp/gs_sicl_syra_pt05.htm

As you can see from my note, this coin had (past tense) a beautiful glossy medium to dark green patina. It also had bronze disease. During treatment, the (fake?) patina was stripped, revealing an ugly, bronze disease-infested coin.

Meepzorp

[Jay GT4]

It might benefit from some Renaissance wax,

[Lee S]

What Jay just said.....

     I think the different colour patches are the underlying metal , visable due to corrosion... It could be worth applying a little re-toning agent to those spots, with a cotton bud ( q-tip ) let them darken, remove it thoroughly, dry the.coin out again, then use a thick coat of microcrystalline wax and buff up with a lint free cloth.... This will restore an even colour and the luster...

( Of course you could also buy a tin of green paint! )

    If you have any doubts or problems sourcing the materials, send me a message here and I will guide you through the process..... You have not ruined your coin... You just see it now for what it really is, and are able to treat it and restore it to it's best...

  Best wishes,

Lee S.