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Author Topic: ANTONINUS PIUS - Sestertius  (Read 1521 times)

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Offline Dean B2

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ANTONINUS PIUS - Sestertius
« on: October 01, 2009, 02:52:20 pm »
Need confirmation for this Antoninus Pius Sestertius,would you say it's authentic and in VF condition?Reverse TEMPLE w/o COS III,and SC underline?Thx

Offline slokind

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Re: ANTONINUS PIUS - Sestertius
« Reply #1 on: October 01, 2009, 05:14:55 pm »
I think it's only F for wear (condition) and somewhat flat struck but genuine.  It may show genuine BD, too, especially about the hair and ears on the obverse.  I'll look up its number and add it here unless someone else does so first.  Pat L.

OK, it would help if the RIC index would list under decastyle temples one with VENERI   FELICI and SC in exergue, which this is.  As such it probably would be RIC p. 115, 673, but only if it were a dupondius and radiate and the obv. legend ended in COS IIIBUT SEE P.S.
In BMCRE, getting VENERI   FELICI / SC + decastyle + bareheaded** Ant Pius + statue in cella (the last being the sticking point), it might be p. 217, no. 1345, marked double-dagger (as the fourth combination for 1345).  **Yes, I see yours is laureate, too.
With most of "VENERI" effaced, I found this only by looking at all the decastyles in the plates of BMCRE.  There no. 1322, listed on p. 211, is decastyle but does not show the cult image in the temple; the portrait is "a4", and I don't know what the 4 means, but pl. 31, 3 shows a laureate head.  Most of the sestertii with decastyle temple reverse say ROMAE   AETERNAE.
Pat L.
P.S. But I think it's RIC 652 on p. 113 (Cohen 1074), there called "R".
Even if it were common, I'd love to have one (even with a case of BD to tend to!), because this is the decastyle temple of Venus and Roma designed by Hadrian (whether Apollodorus of Damascus liked it or not!) that you can view best from out of the Colosseum.

Offline Diederik

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Re: ANTONINUS PIUS - Sestertius
« Reply #2 on: October 01, 2009, 06:48:47 pm »
It is a delightful sestertius which I would love to have in my own collection! The BD isn't too bad, if it is active BD at all; I would treat with Dr Gringott's Soakl for a few days and then most patches of light filling will be gone, adding to the quality of the coin.

Frans

Offline commodus

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Re: ANTONINUS PIUS - Sestertius
« Reply #3 on: October 01, 2009, 11:03:05 pm »
One heck of a coin in any grade. I'd love to have one. That little dash of green doesn't really look like bronze disease to me, but if it is it is easily treatable.
Eric Brock (1966 - 2011)

Offline Dean B2

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Re: ANTONINUS PIUS - Sestertius
« Reply #4 on: October 02, 2009, 04:14:03 am »
I think it's only F for wear (condition) and somewhat flat struck but genuine.  It may show genuine BD, too, especially about the hair and ears on the obverse.  I'll look up its number and add it here unless someone else does so first.  Pat L.

OK, it would help if the RIC index would list under decastyle temples one with VENERI   FELICI and SC in exergue, which this is.  As such it probably would be RIC p. 115, 673, but only if it were a dupondius and radiate and the obv. legend ended in COS IIIBUT SEE P.S.
In BMCRE, getting VENERI   FELICI / SC + decastyle + bareheaded** Ant Pius + statue in cella (the last being the sticking point), it might be p. 217, no. 1345, marked double-dagger (as the fourth combination for 1345).  **Yes, I see yours is laureate, too.
With most of "VENERI" effaced, I found this only by looking at all the decastyles in the plates of BMCRE.  There no. 1322, listed on p. 211, is decastyle but does not show the cult image in the temple; the portrait is "a4", and I don't know what the 4 means, but pl. 31, 3 shows a laureate head.  Most of the sestertii with decastyle temple reverse say ROMAE   AETERNAE.
Pat L.
P.S. But I think it's RIC 652 on p. 113 (Cohen 1074), there called "R".
Even if it were common, I'd love to have one (even with a case of BD to tend to!), because this is the decastyle temple of Venus and Roma designed by Hadrian (whether Apollodorus of Damascus liked it or not!) that you can view best from out of the Colosseum.

slokind,what can I say - THANKS for this comprehensive identification! :)

One more if you have time,would you say that this Illyricum Drachme is close to UNC condition:
https://www.forumancientcoins.com/board/index.php?topic=56597.0

Thx.Dean

Offline slokind

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Re: ANTONINUS PIUS - Sestertius
« Reply #5 on: October 02, 2009, 05:45:51 pm »
1) Well, it's been a long time since I had a 'new' Antonine sestertius to identify.  So I left you my process, not just the conclusion.  Right or wrong (meaning, efficient or not), that's how I'd go about it if I had a new one.  One thing that's nice about coins that are NOT from Forum is that the fun is left to one's own efforts.  For me, that makes the coin mine.  Also, I don't forget that I have it, if I've studied it myself.  You still could look it up in Paul Strack.  You also could read the text in the front of BMCRE and RIC.  You could look for it in the studies of famous ancient buildings, such as Tameanko or Price & Trell.  You could read Ward-Perkins on Hadrianic architecture in the Penguin History of Art.  And lots of other things.  Notice that I didn't rob you of finding those books for yourself.  I may go back and re-read some of them myself; after all, it's 5 years since I taught Roman architecture.  Anyhow, I always feel, with a coin like this one, that you have shared your pleasure.  My privilege.  I hope I left you enough of your own pleasure.
2) Grading Dyrrhachium drachms is not such a privilege.  For me, these coins come in only two grades: nice and not nice.  Yours is nice.  Sestertii are worth fussing over.

I attach the photo taken (by one of our students) from the Colosseum.  As you see it today, it has the back-to-back apses in the double cella of Maxentius's restoration.  Maxentius was very conscious of Rome's significance.  He began the Basilica Nova which Constantine finished after eliminating Maxentius; you can see the brick end wall of the Basilica Nova to the right of the platform.  This platform shows how the Romans were serious about how they created platforms for bearing temples.  Today you can see the continuous vaults.  Structures of this kind seem first to have been used for reservoirs and, for example, underneath the orchestra of a theater where you wanted a deus ex machina effect and especially by the Romans for supporting the cavea (seating) of a theater or amphitheater.  They go back to the Republic period.  Having natural cement from Pozzuoli (hence, pozzolana) enabled their creating building methods with concrete (that is why you don't find such concrete vaulting elsewhere in the Empire).  Maxentius's restoration made use of it, and so did Hadrian and his team at Tivoli, but he wanted to make a textbook Hellenistic Greek temple here, and it had all straight walls and timber coffering ceilings in his original design.
Rome, Forum Romanum.  View from the upper Colosseum across to the vault-supported platform of the Temple of Venus and Roma (the addorsed vaulted apses are not part of the original Hadrianic design): remember that part of the Domus Transitoria is embedded under the platform.  We also see, from left to right, the Palatine, four colums of (?), the Arch of Titus, the tower of the Church of Sta Francesca Romana behind the Temple of Venus & Roma, the standing side of the Basilica Nova seen from this end, and, bright white behind it, the Vittoriano; below, the Via dei fori Imperiali.
Photo: Gabriele Chiocca
P.L.
CLICK for 100% zoom
P.S. I ought to have mentioned that the main weight-bearing arches were built of solid tufa or even of harder stone.  Concrete is lighter, but solid stone has compression strength.  The thick walls that look like brick are stuffed with concrete, too (which doesn't have to be fired, firing requiring wood).

gavignano

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Re: ANTONINUS PIUS - Sestertius
« Reply #6 on: October 02, 2009, 10:17:59 pm »
A few observations:
its authentic
its a great example of the type - just wonderful!!
I'm not sure that is bronze disease, but with a desirable coin like this, you might want to post it now on  the uncleaned board for advice.
I would think the usual accepted approaches to rid it of such would be harmless to the coin if it wasn't, but if it is some kind of residue from a cleaning attempt, it might require other approaches.
Great coin!

Offline Dean B2

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Re: ANTONINUS PIUS - Sestertius
« Reply #7 on: October 03, 2009, 08:13:19 am »
Slokind,just want to thank you once again for your time and comprehensive identification!
Regards from my ancient town were I have spent my best days:
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Offline Dean B2

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Re: ANTONINUS PIUS - Sestertius
« Reply #8 on: October 03, 2009, 08:18:33 am »
A few observations:
its authentic
its a great example of the type - just wonderful!!
I'm not sure that is bronze disease, but with a desirable coin like this, you might want to post it now on  the uncleaned board for advice.
I would think the usual accepted approaches to rid it of such would be harmless to the coin if it wasn't, but if it is some kind of residue from a cleaning attempt, it might require other approaches.
Great coin!

Gavignano,thanks for your post and opinion.Since I don't have any experience with professional cleaning,I will leave it as it is and maybe trade or sell?!?!
My only area of roman coins collecting are August and Vespasian because of many trace they have left in my hometown.
Best regards

 

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