Chemical cleaning product question...

[casata137ec]

Evening all,  I was just at the grocery and saw a product in the coffee section called "dip-it" (for cleaning coffee pots and the like)which has as its active ingredients in order of mention: sodium perborate, sodium carbonate, and sodium silicate. Has anyone ever tried this stuff and would it even be worth a try?


Thanks,

Chris

[Adam]

I looked up on wikipedia the ingredients, below are links to them.

I'm not a chemist in any way, so I don't know if the info helps.  I know that sodium carbonate is "washing soda" which some people use to clean coins.  The article of sodium silicate says it is also known as "waterglass" or "liquid glass" and one of the uses is in water treatment, it binds to heavier molecules and pulls them out of the water (could help pull dirt and clay maybe?).  The article on sodium perborate mentions that it often serves as the source of the "active oxygen"in detergents and cleaning products, I'm not sure if that would be good for cleaning coins or not.  Maybe he forums resident chemist Bruce will shed a better light on this.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sodium_perborate
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sodium_carbonate
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sodium_silicate


Adam

[awl]

I do not recommend washing soda for cleaning coins, especially if it is the first ingrediant, it is only good for treating bronze disease. For more information about washing soda click here:

https://www.forumancientcoins.com/board/index.php?topic=39619.0

[casata137ec]

Well, I went ahead and tried it last night and it didn't seem to do anything good or bad, it did kinda freak me out cause soon as I put the coins (three different, one just dirty, one very clayed up, and one sand-cement encrusted) they started bubbling like with electrolosys (and continued through the next 20 minutes of cooking), but after I pulled them out and nylon brushed them, it made no change whatsoever on any of them (even the simply dirty one). Ah well...back to the old drawing board.

Chris

[bruce61813]

I do not recommend washing soda for cleaning coins, especially if it is the first ingrediant, it is only good for treating bronze disease. For more information about washing soda click here:

https://www.forumancientcoins.com/board/index.php?topic=39619.0

Awl, you are wrong. Washing soda is fine for cleaning coins, and it is essential for braking down clay formation and hardened dirt. It will dissolve ordinary copper oxide, as it produces a reductive environment, but at the same time, it will not effect truly hard green, copper carbonate or malachite, on the coin surfaces. Also, do not confuse washing soda, sodium carbonate, with baking soda, sodium bicarbonate. they are different and have different chemical properties. If mixed together in the correct proportions they form sodium sesquicarbonate, an important Bronze Disease treating agent.

Be careful of things that want to bleach. This will take 'color' out of almost anything, as it is breaking  down organics and in some cases oxidizing inorganic material. I tried some Oxisolve on a couple of coins, and it did very little, other that turn osme of the green copper oxide a couple of shades lighter.

Bruce

[Robert_Brenchley]

Washing soda's good for anything apart from the light green or blue patinas. Those want very careful handling.

[awl]

I do not recommend washing soda for cleaning coins, especially if it is the first ingrediant, it is only good for treating bronze disease. For more information about washing soda click here:

https://www.forumancientcoins.com/board/index.php?topic=39619.0

Awl, you are wrong. Washing soda is fine for cleaning coins, and it is essential for braking down clay formation and hardened dirt. It will dissolve ordinary copper oxide, as it produces a reductive environment, but at the same time, it will not effect truly hard green, copper carbonate or malachite, on the coin surfaces. Also, do not confuse washing soda, sodium carbonate, with baking soda, sodium bicarbonate. they are different and have different chemical properties. If mixed together in the correct proportions they form sodium sesquicarbonate, an important Bronze Disease treating agent.

Be careful of things that want to bleach. This will take 'color' out of almost anything, as it is breaking  down organics and in some cases oxidizing inorganic material. I tried some Oxisolve on a couple of coins, and it did very little, other that turn osme of the green copper oxide a couple of shades lighter.

Bruce

I did not recommend it for cleaning since it would ruin the patina. That is why I had the link for the post with the patina and washing soda information. Sorry for the confusion.

[awl]

I do not recommend washing soda for cleaning coins, especially if it is the first ingrediant, it is only good for treating bronze disease. For more information about washing soda click here:

https://www.forumancientcoins.com/board/index.php?topic=39619.0

Awl, you are wrong. Washing soda is fine for cleaning coins, and it is essential for braking down clay formation and hardened dirt. It will dissolve ordinary copper oxide, as it produces a reductive environment, but at the same time, it will not effect truly hard green, copper carbonate or malachite, on the coin surfaces. Also, do not confuse washing soda, sodium carbonate, with baking soda, sodium bicarbonate. they are different and have different chemical properties. If mixed together in the correct proportions they form sodium sesquicarbonate, an important Bronze Disease treating agent.

Be careful of things that want to bleach. This will take 'color' out of almost anything, as it is breaking  down organics and in some cases oxidizing inorganic material. I tried some Oxisolve on a couple of coins, and it did very little, other that turn osme of the green copper oxide a couple of shades lighter.

Bruce

I did not recommend it for cleaning since it would ruin the patina. That is why I had the link for the post with the patina and washing soda information. Sorry for the confusion. Perhaps I should have used the phrase "better" instead of "only good."

[Douglas]

I've not had the experience that washing soda will ruin patina on the coins I've used it with, and Bruce lists what types of patina it won't affect. This "dip it" might ruin patina, but I have no experience with it. I also use washing soda as an electrolyte when using electrolysis to remove rust from tools. (I've never used electrolysis on a coin, however.)

[bruce61813]

The soda will not harm stable patina. It will dissolve unstable patinas, and if it has things like the green from BD mixed in, it will be removed. However sold green type are safe. this coin spent two months soaking in both #1 a soda combination and #2 that has washing soda , along with a bunch of other coins in an extended series of soaks ,and they were heavily crusted. It is still green.

Bruce