Classical Numismatics Discussion
  Welcome Guest. Please login or register. All Items Purchased From Forum Ancient Coins Are Guaranteed Authentic For Eternity!!! Explore Our Website And Find Joy In The History, Numismatics, Art, Mythology, And Geography Of Coins!!! Expert Authentication - Accurate Descriptions - Reasonable Prices - Coins From Under $10 To Museum Quality Rarities Welcome Guest. Please login or register. Internet challenged? We Are Happy To Take Your Order Over The Phone 252-646-1958 Explore Our Website And Find Joy In The History, Numismatics, Art, Mythology, And Geography Of Coins!!! Support Our Efforts To Serve The Classical Numismatics Community - Shop At Forum Ancient Coins

New & Reduced


Author Topic: When to use what?  (Read 1933 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline DruMAX

  • Caesar
  • ****
  • Posts: 424
  • Pecunia non olet
    • Cache Coins
When to use what?
« on: September 25, 2006, 03:39:22 pm »
This is how I approach cleaning; let me know if I am off base:

When I get the coins in I immediately wash them down with just water from the tap to get loose dirt off. I then soak them for a few hours in hot distilled water with a dish soap. After this I will scrub them a bit with a stiff brush, rinse then soak them in Olive Oil...every few weeks I will repeat this....sometime I will see if I cant pick some hard chunks off with my dental pick (I use a metal one and sometime a plastic pick that comes with dental floss sticks.)

Question the First: What is the difference in olive oil and distilled water? are they both just as effective? how about WD 40? Minerial Oil?

Question the Second: How effective is baking the coin a bit? I have a few coins that have very thick, very hard crust that just isnt budging after almost a year.

Question the Third: Is a bit of Ammonia or Vinegar okay (quick soak) just to maybe loosen up the crust a bit? what about lye? I dont want to use Elecro...

On a few of these I just ned to break up the crust a bit so I can pick at it better...as it is I am afraid I just cant tell what is dark hard crust and what is dark coin surface.





Offline Scotvs Capitis

  • Conservator Princeps
  • Caesar
  • ****
  • Posts: 407
  • This space intentionally left blank
Re: When to use what?
« Reply #1 on: September 25, 2006, 11:34:06 pm »
I try not to mix my olive oil soaked coins with distilled water soaks afterward, If the coins have soaked in olive oil long enough, the crud will have absorbed enough oil to repel the water and the soaks are ineffective (I have found).

I can go from water to oil but never oil to water with results.

I use olive oil because of its reported acidic qualities. WD-40 is basically a low grade kerosine or jet fuel, it isn't really an oil and if you let it evaporate leaves a horrendous sticky residue (never let it touch your firearms if you own them! Use a true oil). WD-40 is a water displacement liquid, hence the WD in its name. It will drive water out of a porous or dirt caked coin but you will want to use oil soaks afterward due to the petroleum content, it will repel water after WD-40 soaks.

I don't bake, but I do boil coins. When they first arrive I boil with a bit of sodium carbonate (washing soda) or maybe some Dawn dishwashing detergent if we have it on hand. I boil for 5 to 8 minutes or so, the majority of loose crud and dirt comes off at this stage, or the stubbord dirt is at least revealed to make distilled water soaks more effective.

I scrub with a toothbrush and work with a sharpened brass and copper rod, those are my most commonly used tools. I will use a diamond dusted pick in teh manner Mayadigger reccommends if I have coins that will respond well to them.

I almost never use ammonia or inegar (vinegar occasionally on billon or silver coins in diluted solution, just to help bump a soak, and only for a few minutes at a time. Lemon juice is good too.

Ammonia finds uses in repatinating stubborn coins that had to take a dunk in teh zapper. i know, its not popular in many circles, but I buy lots of lower priced uncleaned coins and crusties, it keeps me finding decent stuff. I have mananged to hone my zapping skills pretty well, and always note on my attribution if a coin has a false patina, some folks would never buy that coin should I have to sell one day, and I believe in honesty. Do unto others and all that...

Under good light and with a wet coin, you SHOULD be able to tell a hard, smooth clay layer from patina. Some coins are tough though like you say, just continued distilled water soakes will eventually wear the patina down a bit if it is a patina, and sooner if it is clay. A diamond dusted pick comes in handy to determine the makeup of the layer you are dealing with.

That's just my way, I have some other, more unconventional methods I try on stubborn coins before they get zapped. Ultra fine diamond dusted Dremel bits, sculpting bits, jewelers bits, etc. But for daily scrubs it is a toothbrush, trimmed short to resharpen the bristles ocasionally.
SCOTVS CAPITIS - Hovstonoplis Tex
(Scott Head, TX)
My Gallery

Offline DruMAX

  • Caesar
  • ****
  • Posts: 424
  • Pecunia non olet
    • Cache Coins
Re: When to use what?
« Reply #2 on: September 26, 2006, 12:29:22 am »
So as I understand your post, distilled water and Olive Oil are about similar just one you cant use if you have already started with the oil. This is good to know because I have been using the oil so I will continue to do so.

I am also getting that vinegar in a light solution might be of help in some cases. I have tried a bit of vinegar and I think that helped a bit (just a dip). I might give a quick boil a try on some of them, I read heating might be good in that it will expand the coins a little and might help crack some of the real tough crust (I have some serious black tar like crust.)

As I have been researching I found a write-up that mentions packing tape or elmers glue. I didnt have elmers glue but I had a big roll of packing tape, I used it tonight on a few coins and it worked rather well on some serious crust. I dont have a before after shot but I have a pic of the tape. Whats on the tape was a crust I was afraid to start picking because there was no break in it, the tape just took bits here and there and gave me little ledges in the crust I could start picking on.



I will continue as I am going without Electro for now with the oil, some scrubing and soap and maybe the boiling and tape.

Thanks!

Scipio Helveticus

  • Guest
Re: When to use what?
« Reply #3 on: September 26, 2006, 01:25:37 am »
I use virtually the same techniques as you do, Drumax, and like Scott I like to boil my coins as soon as I get them, with a bit of Sodium Carbonate solution.

I also second that I use water before an oil soak. However, I am experimenting with a batch of coins I am treating with de-ionised water versus distilled water. De-ionised water is a super pure water, with an electrical conductivity of >0.1 microsiemens. Unfortunatly for the collector, it isnt commercialy availiable, and I get it from a Reverse Osmosis plant I work at. My theory is that the rate of osmotic penetration of the crud in de-ionised water is far greater than that of distilled water, and after 3 days of soaking the waters conductivity has gone up to 30millisiemens, indicating that the crud is going into solution. So I also change out the water every 3 days, to maintain that strong osmotic solution. I expect exellent results........! We'll see.

Offline DruMAX

  • Caesar
  • ****
  • Posts: 424
  • Pecunia non olet
    • Cache Coins
Re: When to use what?
« Reply #4 on: September 26, 2006, 01:53:06 am »
I am sure it has been posted somewhere here but just to make it easy on me, what is the best product to use for sodium carbonate...I know it is in most detergents but I am not sure if those detergents have other chemicals that might adversely effect the coin...should I buy pure sodium carbonate?

I would be interested in how the de ionised water works out, sounds promising...though I guess one cannot buy deinionised water...I have seen it for sell online but the purchase of it might be restricted...it was sold on a site that required an account.

Retrospectator

  • Guest
Re: When to use what?
« Reply #5 on: September 26, 2006, 09:23:03 am »
I'm also soaking some coins in deionised water at the moment. So far I've had them in for about 3 days and signs are looking promising so far already (albeit the encrustation looks pretty light). Luckily, deionised water is available commercially here in the UK: I can get it from either an ironmonger's or a motor spares shop.

Scipio Helveticus

  • Guest
Re: When to use what?
« Reply #6 on: September 26, 2006, 09:37:55 am »
I am sure it has been posted somewhere here but just to make it easy on me, what is the best product to use for sodium carbonate...I know it is in most detergents but I am not sure if those detergents have other chemicals that might adversely effect the coin...should I buy pure sodium carbonate?

I would be interested in how the de ionised water works out, sounds promising...though I guess one cannot buy deinionised water...I have seen it for sell online but the purchase of it might be restricted...it was sold on a site that required an account.

Usually, cheap suds are nothing but Sodium Carbonate with little other additives in it. It shouldnt be a problem.

I am surprised you can get de-ionised from an ironmongery in Britain! Not the case here, unfortunatly. But all I have to do is open a tap and presto!!

Offline DruMAX

  • Caesar
  • ****
  • Posts: 424
  • Pecunia non olet
    • Cache Coins
Re: When to use what?
« Reply #7 on: September 26, 2006, 09:52:42 am »
So most cheap detergents will work for the sodium carbonite...thanks.

Now who will send me some de ionised water :)

Offline moonmoth

  • Procurator Caesaris
  • Caesar
  • ****
  • Posts: 2454
    • What I Like About Ancient Coins
Re: When to use what?
« Reply #8 on: September 26, 2006, 01:58:08 pm »
Quote from: Scipio Helveticus on September 26, 2006, 09:37:55 am
I am surprised you can get de-ionised from an ironmongery in Britain! Not the case here, unfortunatly. But all I have to do is open a tap and presto!!

You can't easily get distilled water here, but de-ionised water is easy - it's sold in garages to top up car batteries.  I pick some up when I put petrol in the car.  I have a litre here as I type, branded "Unipart." Luckily, it's in a container.

It doesn't clean coins like magic, unfortunately.  You still need to soak and scrub and re-soak a lot.

Bill
"... A form of twisted symbolical bedsock ... the true purpose of which, as they realised at first glance, would never (alas) be revealed to mankind."

Retrospectator

  • Guest
Re: When to use what?
« Reply #9 on: September 27, 2006, 04:22:29 am »
Quote
I am surprised you can get de-ionised from an ironmongery in Britain!

The only reason I can think of at the moment as to why they might sell it, is because it could be used as an alternative to tap water in steam irons.

Just for the record, the stuff I'm using at the moment is manufactured by a company called Silverhook.

 

All coins are guaranteed for eternity