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Author Topic: What makes a gallery stand out as great?  (Read 1434 times)

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Offline Ron C2

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What makes a gallery stand out as great?
« on: February 03, 2022, 08:29:58 am »
Here's a question for those that voted, what made a good gallery stand out to you? 

Was it the quality of the photography, the quality of the coins, the accuracy of the description and attribution, or was it the added narrative about placing the coin into context or translating the legends, etc.?

In short, what did many of you feel separated good from great?

Mods: feel free to segment to a new thread if this is too much of a hijack :)
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Offline shanxi

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Re: Re: 2021 Member Gallery of the Year Winners declared!
« Reply #1 on: February 03, 2022, 09:56:20 am »
what made a good gallery stand out to you? 

I voted for three galleries that I think are better than mine.

The reasons are:

- Interesting coins
- Good photos
- A good description
- everything well organized


Not important are:

- Rarity
- Value


Offline Enodia

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Re: What makes a gallery stand out as great?
« Reply #2 on: February 03, 2022, 02:14:46 pm »
When I started the Gallery of the Year contest many years ago what I didn't want was a beauty contest or a popularity contest. The idea was to highlight those galleries that were informative and also fun to browse.
With that criteria in mind I look for interesting coins which are well presented and which can teach me something I may not have known before. I like them to be organized in a way that keeps me from having to 'mine' the entry for information, with dates and size or denomination clearly presented. Historical context is absolutely appreciated too.

While quality of image is important it is not essential to me. The same can be said about rarity or value. Not all of us can afford Syracusan decadrachms, but we can all display our coins proudly.

These, I think, are what makes the Forvm galleries a vital resource.

~ Peter



Offline Jay GT4

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Re: What makes a gallery stand out as great?
« Reply #3 on: February 03, 2022, 02:56:10 pm »
I agree!  Well organized galleries that are easily navigated with proper attributions are what I look for.  I have to admit I also like when some effort is put into providing a good picture.  I'm not a fan of chapters worth of background info (some seem to go on forever) but a nice, to the point write up is appreciated. 

I've organized my Flavians by RIC number.  Makes it easy to see what I'm still after!  The rest are organized by city/territory to make it easy.

Offline Ron C2

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Re: What makes a gallery stand out as great?
« Reply #4 on: February 03, 2022, 08:41:19 pm »
Jay, I've largely been with you, though ever since FORUM added the full coin description below each thumbnail in a gallery viewer, I think having too much description makes a gallery look cluttered. 

I appreciate all the research some members do to post everything they know about a coin, placing it in historical context.  For example, if a Phillip I antoninianus commemorative includes a writeup about Rome's millenial celebration, why the coin was minted, what was going on in the emperor's reign that made him want to mint such coins, etc.  But since the gallery views changed so that all that text appears under each thumbnail, I've grown to find long descriptions irritating - I can't help it.

Personally, I've been keeping my descriptions to the essentials lately.  Here's an example from a random coin in my gallery:

Coin title, the part that is bolded under the thumbnails view: Ariarathes V Eusebes Philopator Drachm HGC 7, 811

And the description you get if you click on the coin, but it's also now pasted under the title in smaller font when browsing gallery thumbnails (annoying!!):

Quote
Ariarathes V Eusebes Philopator AR drachm

4.03g, 20.0mm, 0 degrees, Kingdom of Cappadocia. Mazaka-Eusebeia (Kayseri, Turkey) mint, Regnal year 33 (130 BCE)

Attribution: HGC 7, 811.

O: Diademed head right.

R: ΒΑΣΙΛΕΩΣ AΡIAΡAΘOY EYΣEBOYΣ, Athena Nikephoros standing left; monogram to inner left and ΓΑ(E) to outer right; in exergue, ΓΛ.

Ex-Pars Coins Auction 21 (15 Dec 2021) Lot 61, EX-Economopoulos Numismatics No. 12000957.

At times, I almost think this is too much info, but am at a loss what to cut further.  I give the dimensions, mint, year, attribution, O and R descriptions in typical format, and whatever provenance I have.  That's it. 

Based on the feedback in this thread so far, I almost feel like now I should add in a little writeup about who the issuer was, why they minted this style coin, maybe a description of where Cappadocia is, etc.  It seems like people either really like this, or are really turned off by that kind of detail. 

Honestly - I feel if we went back to the old format, people would appreciate more detailed writeups much more!?!?

So what do other people add to their descriptions that most people would like, beyond the examples I've given here?  Enquiring minds want to know :)
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Offline Jay GT4

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Re: What makes a gallery stand out as great?
« Reply #5 on: February 03, 2022, 09:52:51 pm »
Usually I put very little if anything in the description. The exception if it's someone that's not very well known, like my write up of Polemo II, Antony's great grandson

https://www.forumancientcoins.com/gallery/displayimage.php?pid=85575

or Juba II and Cleopatra Selene

https://www.forumancientcoins.com/gallery/displayimage.php?pid=51760

But I have seen some  descriptions that have their own cross references and footnotes  :)


Offline *Alex

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Re: What makes a gallery stand out as great?
« Reply #6 on: February 04, 2022, 08:26:34 am »
I think having too much description makes a gallery look cluttered. 
I appreciate all the research some members do to post everything they know about a coin, placing it in historical context.  For example, if a Phillip I antoninianus commemorative includes a writeup about Rome's millenial celebration, why the coin was minted, what was going on in the emperor's reign that made him want to mint such coins, etc.  But since the gallery views changed so that all that text appears under each thumbnail, I've grown to find long descriptions irritating - I can't help it.

Personally, I've been keeping my descriptions to the essentials lately.  Here's an example from a random coin in my gallery:

Coin title, the part that is bolded under the thumbnails view: Ariarathes V Eusebes Philopator Drachm HGC 7, 811

And the description you get if you click on the coin, but it's also now pasted under the title in smaller font when browsing gallery thumbnails (annoying!!):

Quote
Ariarathes V Eusebes Philopator AR drachm

4.03g, 20.0mm, 0 degrees, Kingdom of Cappadocia. Mazaka-Eusebeia (Kayseri, Turkey) mint, Regnal year 33 (130 BCE)

Attribution: HGC 7, 811.

O: Diademed head right.

R: ΒΑΣΙΛΕΩΣ AΡIAΡAΘOY EYΣEBOYΣ, Athena Nikephoros standing left; monogram to inner left and ΓΑ(E) to outer right; in exergue, ΓΛ.

Ex-Pars Coins Auction 21 (15 Dec 2021) Lot 61, EX-Economopoulos Numismatics No. 12000957.

At times, I almost think this is too much info, but am at a loss what to cut further.  I give the dimensions, mint, year, attribution, O and R descriptions in typical format, and whatever provenance I have.  That's it. 

Based on the feedback in this thread so far, I almost feel like now I should add in a little writeup about who the issuer was, why they minted this style coin, maybe a description of where Cappadocia is, etc.  It seems like people either really like this, or are really turned off by that kind of detail. 

Honestly - I feel if we went back to the old format, people would appreciate more detailed writeups much more!?!?

So what do other people add to their descriptions that most people would like, beyond the examples I've given here?  Enquiring minds want to know :)

I agree when the descriptions are all visible in the gallery view, it is not a good look. I have no issue with a lengthy description if it was only visible when you clicked on an individual coin but maybe people are too lazy to click on anything any more, and they certainly won't if everything is visible in the gallery view. I much preferred the old format myself.
In my own gallery, to cut down on lengthy visible gallery descriptions, I have started adding my descriptions to little thumbnails you can click on below the basic coin information.

Example: https://www.forumancientcoins.com/gallery/displayimage.php?pid=174080

Maybe it's a fruitless task but it makes my gallery look better to me if no-one else.  ;D

Alex

Offline Kamnaskires

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Re: What makes a gallery stand out as great?
« Reply #7 on: February 04, 2022, 09:28:45 am »
I've grown to find long descriptions irritating - I can't help it.

Me too. IMO, long descriptions belong here on the board. A simple link to a post/thread about the coin or artifact is all that is needed to refer viewers to more information, if they are so inclined to check it out.

As to the question at hand: Among the galleries I voted for was Schatz's. We have here at Forum what I believe may very well be the most extensive private collection of Parthian coins in the world, expertly photographed and carefully cataloged, and ranging from common emissions to extremely rare issues. It is more than a "show-and-tell". It should be recognized (but, sadly, is probably not), as an important online reference for the attribution of Parthian (and related) coinage and, more generally, for learning about this area of ancient numismatics. I peruse Schatz's gallery not just for enjoyment. Rather, I value it as a learning tool. I have used it - and referred others to it - repeatedly through the years.

Granted, all the members' galleries may be used as aids for attribution. Time spent looking through any gallery is instructive as well as entertaining. But some - such as Schatz's - simply take it to another level. The fact that her gallery focuses on an eastern, more esoteric, corner of numismatics, makes it especially important - again, in my opinion.

Offline cmcdon0923

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Re: What makes a gallery stand out as great?
« Reply #8 on: February 04, 2022, 04:23:00 pm »
Another option, if the software would allow, is to only display maybe five or six lines of the description on the GALLERY thumbnail page and truncate anything beyond that on just that page. 

If you want to see the full descriptive text, you just select the thumbnail for that item.


Craig

Offline v-drome

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Re: What makes a gallery stand out as great?
« Reply #9 on: February 04, 2022, 07:57:00 pm »
I really appreciate some of the more detailed descriptions.  With unusual coins, and especially with artifacts, it helps when the author calls attention to various details which I might not otherwise notice at first.  Galleries such as David Atherton's, along with many others, provide so much interesting information.  Brief referrals to sources of more information about rarely seen objects are helpful, as well.  Since I have a large enough screen I also like being able to see the object and learn something about it without always going to the individual page.  Thanks again to all the expert Forum members who have helped me with my own gallery, which I hope will be of use to others.

Jimi

https://www.forumancientcoins.com/gallery/index.php?cat=31085

Offline cicerokid

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Re: What makes a gallery stand out as great?
« Reply #10 on: February 05, 2022, 11:29:44 am »
I KNOW
AS LONG AS IT DOESN'T CONTAIN ANY ATHENS NEW STYLE SILVER
NO, NOT EVEN THOUGH THE COLLECTION MIGHT BE UNIQUE IN PRIVATE HANDS IN THAT IT HAS AN EXAMPLE OF ALL 29 OF THE 28 ISSUES OF THE THOMPSON EARLY CATALOGUE
MAYBE COS IT DON'T CONTAIN ANY SLABBED NGC GRADED STUFF
MAYBE BECAUSE IT AINT ROMAN.
IT IS INTERESTING THAT ATHENS NEW STYLE ATTRACTED EQUALLY LITTLE INTEREST OVER ON C...
I FIND IT FASCINATING.
I ONCE HAD A LRB I USED TO LEVEL A SHABTI ON A STAND...THE ONLY GOOD USE FOR IT I COULD FIND!
Timeo Danaos afferentem coronas

Offline cicerokid

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Re: What makes a gallery stand out as great?
« Reply #11 on: February 06, 2022, 08:03:23 am »
And yet another thing, I see Ron C that you collect Cappadocian drachms, but the real write up is the Morkholm-Simonetta battle in the literature on the attribution of the coinage. Then Simonetta produced the book but Morkholm held his ground and eventually demolished Simonetta.

See NC 1964 to 1979

Morkholms attributions are the ones used today .

A similar but less rancorous as the Thompson high New Style dating vs Lewis low dating.  Whilst Thompson's general sequencing..esp of the Early catalogue still stands.

Meanwhile the coming and goings of Mithradates/Arariathes lX have a whole puzzle of their own.

The various Coin Forum's never seem to be interested in this stuff and yet will spend their time pursuing who owned the coin and what various auctions it passed through...if one can believe the myths of the owners...cf Gold Eid Mar.

I don't know who originally owned my coins and I am not wasting my time contacting them.

eg The coin of APELLIKON with symbol GRIFFIN, the problem of returning it to Apellikon is that he is dead, and a well known crim...so who could trust his word anyway!
Timeo Danaos afferentem coronas

Offline Jay GT4

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Re: What makes a gallery stand out as great?
« Reply #12 on: February 06, 2022, 08:12:30 am »
  Some people specialize while others collect more broadly.  There are so many nuances to a series that they are not apparent to the casual observer. Unkess they are  willing to dig deep, these nuances will not be noticed and they all look the same, which of course the don't. 

Offline Joe Sermarini

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Re: What makes a gallery stand out as great?
« Reply #13 on: February 06, 2022, 08:23:35 am »
I like long descriptions. I want to know as much as possible.
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Offline Ron C2

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Re: What makes a gallery stand out as great?
« Reply #14 on: February 06, 2022, 10:13:56 am »
While I understand Joe, long descriptions make thumbnail viewing in the album's unmanageable. If the thumbmail replication of the coin description were cut off at, say, 4 or 5 lines, I think collectors like me would enrich our descriptions.
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Offline Virgil H

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Re: What makes a gallery stand out as great?
« Reply #15 on: February 09, 2022, 11:44:57 pm »
On the question of why I voted for who I did, I will say that well organized into folders, even though I am pretty sure I have seen at least one gallery (not necessarily any up for vote) that had three pages of just folders (but it is also an incredible gallery). I won't look at galleries that are just random coins unless they come up in a search. A small part of it is if a gallery has coins I am interested in, although honestly that shouldn't matter and I did vote for the one with the Parthian coins because it is just so good and I don't collect them. It was hard for me to actually narrow it down to three choices to be honest. As for information, the more the better, but it would be great to have something shorter that you click on to get full text. If I have to take one or the other, give me more info all day.

Regards,
Virgil

Offline Ron C2

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Re: What makes a gallery stand out as great?
« Reply #16 on: February 10, 2022, 12:36:34 pm »
And yet another thing, I see Ron C that you collect Cappadocian drachms, [...]

The various Coin Forum's never seem to be interested in this stuff and yet will spend their time pursuing who owned the coin and what various auctions it passed through...if one can believe the myths of the owners...cf Gold Eid Mar.

I don't know who originally owned my coins and I am not wasting my time contacting them.


If you look at the various auction sites, it's clear Greek new style and all manner of drachms sell, and they sell rather well for rather high prices compared to common Roman silver.

the real quesiotn is how many of those people are active on social media of any sort.  I suspect that for some genres, the answer is "not many".  There can be lots of reasons for this - in the past, collectors commiserated at places like ANS chapters.  I think that's less the case these days.

FWIW, I tend to browse other galleries maintained by people with the same collecting areas I have.  I think that's normal.

And agrees - the simonetta morkholm debate in the 60's was the last decent bit of work don on Cappadocian coinage - which is sad.  There remain too many unanswered questions and not enough scholarly interest, though the area is VERY focused and VERY niche.

I would have expected Turkish academics to be more engaged on the subject.
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Offline Jay GT4

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Re: What makes a gallery stand out as great?
« Reply #17 on: February 10, 2022, 12:44:37 pm »
The way Countries are enacting laws to protect "cultural heritage" having a provenance is becoming more and more important.  I don't think that is a waste of time at all.  We don't know who owned the coins thousands of years ago (unfortunately)  but we can know where it has been for at least the last 100+ in some cases.

Offline mauseus

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Re: What makes a gallery stand out as great?
« Reply #18 on: February 10, 2022, 02:58:00 pm »
I have to say my galleries are there primarily for me, a reference to the things I have and can consult at shows. A lot have descriptions and references. I have some galleries, eg my Crispus gallery, or those coins from Late Roman Bronze Coins part 1 where, rather than repeat generic descriptions I simply store by catalogue reference. I mean, how often do I have to type "wolf left, Romulus and Remus below" for example.

Long descriptions, I have to say, I seldom read unless it is something that truly interests me.

Regards,

Mauseus

Offline Ron C2

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Re: What makes a gallery stand out as great?
« Reply #19 on: February 10, 2022, 06:09:13 pm »
Provenance is a tough one. I own a lot of coins from resellers that don't maintain provenance for business reasons. Coins with 109+ yr old collection or museum tags where a reseller shop turfed that all out because they don't want me to figure out how much they marked the coin up. It's sad.

I wish I knew the history of more of my coins, while hoping my government never makes that necessary to keep my collection legally.
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Offline Carausius

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Re: What makes a gallery stand out as great?
« Reply #20 on: March 17, 2022, 05:57:34 pm »
A few thoughts:

1. Critical Info: Size; weight; die axis and correct attribution to several of the most frequently cited reference works for the series.  The latter makes the gallery more easily searchable by researchers looking for certain types.  The former makes the entry particularly useful to researchers who cannot hold the coin "in hand".

2.   Photos:  They need not be perfect, but they should be sharp/clear enough to identify the coin's devices and inscription.  If the coin is low relief, try different lighting angles to make the relief "pop".

3. Write-ups:  I'm a fan of write-ups beyond description, as anyone who has browsed my long-winded gallery will soon realize.  To me, the write-ups make the galleries more informative, and they sometimes go beyond a mere recitation/assemblage of prior research to offer new theories.  Those who complain about collectors think that we only buy and catalogue and hoard - that we don't research and offer scholarship. I say prove them wrong.

4. Provenance: If you've got the info, include it.  It challenges the misconception that our collections are made up of material looted last week.

5. Organization: This is very important for those who like to browse. I appreciate the coins being organized into albums in a manner appropriate to the series, whether that be geographic, by ruler etc.


 

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