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Author Topic: RIC VII ROME 300 Co jest na rewersie?  (Read 1156 times)

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Offline Heliodromus

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Re: RIC VII ROME 300 Co jest na rewersie?
« Reply #25 on: November 18, 2021, 08:02:03 am »
Perhaps the common theme with a genius on rocks is a rocky water's edge? The island of Britain in the case of Britannia ?

Rocks would also fit in with a water theme with Nilus, although he can be depicted leaning on a variety of things such as these with a Hippo and Sphinx.

Offline DzikiZdeb

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Re: RIC VII ROME 300 Co jest na rewersie?
« Reply #26 on: November 19, 2021, 03:32:50 am »
Perhaps the common theme with a genius on rocks is a rocky water's edge? The island of Britain in the case of Britannia ?

Although the figures sitting on the rocks very often have something to do with water (we also have connections such as the stream flowing from the rocks on the Septimus Severus denar - in the left corner under the goddess riding a lion), it cannot be considered as a rule.


https://www.acsearch.info/search.html?id=8665185

For example, we can try to explain the images of Dacia or Spain by their location on the Danube / Mediterranean Sea, but they are almost certainly alluded to their rocky landscape.


https://www.acsearch.info/search.html?id=7929323


https://www.acsearch.info/search.html?id=150347

The wet Genius of the Danube lies as we would expect on the rocks, but the quite similar Genius of Via Traiana reminds us of the dry areas of southern Italy, through which the new road runs.


https://www.acsearch.info/search.html?id=8500623


https://www.acsearch.info/search.html?id=7994369

What's more interesting, we also have river Geniuses without rocks - like the one from Hadrian's native Gades (and yet the personification of the entire province already had rocks, as seen above).


https://www.acsearch.info/search.html?id=2461665

Offline Heliodromus

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Re: RIC VII ROME 300 Co jest na rewersie?
« Reply #27 on: November 19, 2021, 08:00:57 am »
That's an interesting assembly of coins, and commentary.

So, if there were any rules/traditions, it seems it has to be broader than a rocky shore. My second guess would be perhaps that the rocks might represent "terra firma", or a general allusion to the land, as would be appropriate to one of these provincial personifications. If that was the general idea, then it's still not obvious what was intended by a river god leaning on rocks - was this essentially the same, or more literally meant to depict the rocky river bed/bank?

In any case, the figure on the medallion certainly seems to be sitting on something, ankles crossed. The whole scene seems quite unusual and specific, and it's hard to imagine it was expected to be interpreted without any external reference. I assume it is depicting some well known statue, or possibly ceremony, from the city of Rome. Presumably there is some connection between the scene and the "Secvritas Romae" legend, although no guarantee.

I'm not even sure how much a better specimen of the medallion would help... It might make it a bit clearer what is being depicted, but I think we'd still be missing the cultural reference.

I'm sorry for posting in English, but I don't know Polish, and don't trust Google translate unless it is very simple.


Offline Lech Stępniewski

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Re: RIC VII ROME 300 Co jest na rewersie?
« Reply #28 on: November 19, 2021, 08:27:50 am »
I assume it is depicting some well known statue, or possibly ceremony, from the city of Rome.

A kind of ceremony is my first guess. These torches mean something.

I'm not even sure how much a better specimen of the medallion would help... It might make it a bit clearer what is being depicted, but I think we'd still be missing the cultural reference.

It's possible but now we are stuck on the very first level: we only know for sure that there is a big figure with long sceptre (reversed spear?) and some smaller figures with at least two torches. Everything else we must assume: identity of this big figure, even her/his sex, her/his real pose etc. etc.

I'm sorry for posting in English

It's OK. There is nothing to be sorry as long as posts are interesting.
Lech Stępniewski
NOT IN RIC
Poland

Offline DzikiZdeb

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Re: RIC VII ROME 300 Co jest na rewersie?
« Reply #29 on: November 22, 2021, 04:42:52 am »
My second guess would be perhaps that the rocks might represent "terra firma", or a general allusion to the land, as would be appropriate to one of these provincial personifications.

It may be so, especially since it is hard to imagine another simple and legible symbol of land. The symbolism of Roman coins is simple and shortened, so it is not possible to show whole landscapes, which can be found on 17th-century thalers.

was this essentially the same, or more literally meant to depict the rocky river bed/bank?
I think so, especially since the Mediterranean is full of rocky shores.

I assume it is depicting some well known statue, or possibly ceremony, from the city of Rome.

If I were to bet, I would also bet on the ceremony, not the statue. Perhaps it is something like a scene commemorating some celebration. We have something similar, but less static, on Domitian's coins showing Ludi Saeculares - several different figures in different poses, such as something like this:


https://www.acsearch.info/search.html?id=5682697

We could also follow two torches that often show up in the Ceres underground/fertility cults, although this could be completely wrong.


https://www.acsearch.info/search.html?id=8444689

Offline AMICTUS

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Re: RIC VII ROME 300 Co jest na rewersie?
« Reply #30 on: November 26, 2021, 12:11:43 pm »
The cast may show a scene with a central figure of  Vrbs Romae seated facing (holding a scepter) with on the left side a woman and a child getting in the place (head turning right ?), both holding a torch up and on the right a woman and a child without any torch leaving the place (head of the woman  turned right ?). So it could be an opposition between night and day. When reported to SECVRITAS it could be a reference to a real improvement of public order in the city or if taken as a symbolic scene something recalling the REDDITOR LUCIS AETERNAE moto present on the Constantius medaillon.

Offline Lech Stępniewski

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Re: RIC VII ROME 300 Co jest na rewersie?
« Reply #31 on: November 27, 2021, 09:09:03 am »
Quote from: AMICTUS on November 26, 2021, 12:11:43 pm
So it could be an opposition between night and day.

Interesting interpretation. But, unfortunately, "a central figure of  Vrbs Romae" still remains only an assumption.
Lech Stępniewski
NOT IN RIC
Poland

 

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