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Author Topic: Anti-Huntingtonian themes  (Read 594 times)

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Offline Kingston

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Anti-Huntingtonian themes
« on: March 18, 2023, 04:24:29 am »
Hello everyone,

I wanted to get your views on something somehow related to my post here: https://www.forumancientcoins.com/board/index.php?topic=130794.0 but broader in the collection theme potential.

I realize that one of the interest I would have with my collection is to tell a historical narrative that would provide insights that are not commonly known. I am describing it here as an 'anti-Huntingtonian' narrative, for lack of better words, that is, type of coins that would go against a 'clash of civilization' narrative, whether it is Western v. Orientalism, Christendom v. Muslim world, etc... Thus highlighting that it was more complex and that there were common influences, syncretism and exchanges between ancient civilization'

What I have in mind so far is for instance the non-European Roman emperors (e.g., Septimius Severus), the Greek Eastern influence (Seleucids/Greco Bactrian/Indo greek/Kushan...), the Aksum/Ptolemaic/Parthian/Sasanian coinage with greek influence, early Arab coinage...

Keen to hear if you have specific suggestions here of coinage that you believe are interesting in highlighting the mutual influence and cultural/religious exchange between ancient civilisations.

Offline Curtis JJ

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Re: Anti-Huntingtonian themes
« Reply #1 on: March 18, 2023, 10:37:29 am »
It's an interesting topic, and if you collect ancient coins broadly (and/or medieval), I personally think you can see that theme all over the place. (There are, of course, many militaristic and conflict-oriented coins as well.)

I don't own many examples myself, but I find bilingual coinage fascinating -- one of the best illustrations of your theme. You find it a lot in Greco-Central Asian coinage. Such as coins with Karoshti and Greek legends on different sides. In the Holy Land and Mediterranean (esp. Sicily), there are lots of coins that combine Christian/Islamic symbols or and/or Latin/Arabic legends on the two sides of the same coins. You can find Islamic Kingdoms imitating Byzantine coins, and Christian Crusader Kingdoms imitating Islamic coins. In Spain, there are also Islamic coins; the Islamic influences persisted in Spanish culture (not sure how much in coins) after the Islamic Kingdoms of Spain were defeated.

I only have one example myself, but I find Islamic "figural" coinage very interesting, which adopts imagery not only from old Roman/Byzantine coinage, but even revives images from Seleukid Greeks coins over 1000 years old at that point. My one example is here in my gallery: https://www.forumancientcoins.com/gallery/displayimage.php?pid=174838
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Offline Kingston

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Re: Anti-Huntingtonian themes
« Reply #2 on: March 20, 2023, 04:24:51 am »
Very interesting, thanks for your detailed reply. I agree these Islamic coins with portraits are fascinating.

Offline Robert_Brenchley

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Re: Anti-Huntingtonian themes
« Reply #3 on: March 21, 2023, 06:14:40 pm »
I think the 'clash of civilisations' is in part at least a modern artefact, though there obviously were periods in the past like the Crusades when comparable attitudes would have been common in Europe. You're right about the cross connections; the Middle East and Central Asia in particular were an absolute melting pot, with influences running on all directions.
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Offline SC

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Re: Anti-Huntingtonian themes
« Reply #4 on: April 02, 2023, 01:41:33 pm »
Interesting idea.

I think there is a lot of scope in Islamic coinage.  Curtis already mentioned the figural coins.  There are also Islamic coins with crosses on them, Islamic copies of Byzantine coins, crusader copies of Islamic coins, etc.

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Offline gallienus1

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Re: Anti-Huntingtonian themes
« Reply #5 on: April 08, 2023, 03:18:02 am »
Hi Kingston, the others have touched on it, but I think the Sassanian silver coinage was among the most influential to other cultures ever produced. You can see the influence over half a millennium and across a vast area, from central Persia to the shores of the Black and Caspian Seas to the north, then eastward to India.

Other societies gradually changed the design to suit their fashions and religious beliefs. For example, the Tabaristan mint during Abbasid Caliphate removed the face in profile on the obverse because of the Islamic prohibition of images, yet curiously while highly stylized, the fire altar and attendants are still clearly seen on the reverse

To me the last traces of the Sassanian king's profile can be seen in the coinage of the Chaulukyas of Gujarat around 500 years and 2,000 km from the Sassanid original.

Wikipedia covers this very well. See-

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sasanian_coinage

From there you can follow the links to a lot of other wiki sites.

I made up a simple map to show the just a few of the adaptations of the Sassanid coinage over distance and time.

Offline Virgil H

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Re: Anti-Huntingtonian themes
« Reply #6 on: April 09, 2023, 12:38:55 am »
I would just add to the chorus on Islamic coins here. The book I have written about here before that I really love describes, among other topics, specifically interactions that the Ghaznavids had with Gandhara and presumably other areas under their control. The book is by Waleed Zaid, In the Treasure Room of the Sakra Kings: Votive Coinage of the Gandharan Shrines. Basically, the usual narrative on Islam is that they did not tolerate any religious differences, etc. Very basic notions of a religion and culture that are not based in fact, as are many stereotypes like this. Ziad uses regular and votive coins to show that the Ghaznavids were quite tolerant of the other religions in Gandhara served by the Sakra shrine. As others have noted regarding Islamic and other cultures that these stereotypes are never as simple as many people believe.

Virgil

Offline Jan P

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Re: Anti-Huntingtonian themes
« Reply #7 on: April 09, 2023, 11:29:04 am »
The syncretism may be less directly visible on Ptolemaic coins, but it is for certain that the Ptolemeans had to perform a huge religious straddle.
I have here a Ptolemaïc Triobol of Ptolemy IV Philopator. The godhead on the obverse, we call Zeus/Ammon, but we never saw such a Greek-looking Ammon in Egypt before.
However, underneath we can see Ptolemy IV as portrayed on some of his coins (very Greek !) and next to it, his image in his Hathor temple in Deir el-Medina. This is proof enough for religious tolerance and yes, syncretism:

Offline Kingston

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Re: Anti-Huntingtonian themes
« Reply #8 on: April 22, 2023, 03:03:56 am »
Thanks everyone, very interesting illustrations and references. That will help with my searches. The map on Sassanian influence is impressive, I did not know it went to such an extent.

 

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