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Author Topic: Commodus AE25  (Read 1195 times)

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Offline areich

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Commodus AE25
« on: March 23, 2007, 01:26:52 pm »
Clearly Commodus, reverse seems to be someone standing right, no legend discernible on ob- or reverse.
Maybe one of you recognizes the reverse?
 
25mm, 9.8g

Thanks!

Andreas
Andreas Reich

Offline Rugser

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Re: Commodus AE25
« Reply #1 on: March 23, 2007, 02:26:40 pm »
I am perhaps wrong.... but to me it seems the as. Cohen 163; as this.

Offline areich

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Re: Commodus AE25
« Reply #2 on: March 23, 2007, 02:53:32 pm »
Here's what I see:

Andreas Reich

Offline areich

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Re: Commodus AE25
« Reply #3 on: March 25, 2007, 06:00:07 pm »
 ???
Andreas Reich

Offline Jochen

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Re: Commodus AE25
« Reply #4 on: March 25, 2007, 06:16:37 pm »
Could it be a tree r. of the figure? A tree with a snake coiled around? Then it could be Apollo! And Apollo with a hand raised over his head reminds me of Apollo Lykeios from Markianopolis. Only some suggestions!

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Offline Tiathena

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Re: Commodus AE25
« Reply #5 on: March 25, 2007, 06:31:04 pm »
   
     For whatever worth – I see essentially what Aerich sees.  Looks like  ..?
 
 
 
  Yes, I see also what appears to be a serpent coiled 'round / ascending a tree or branch, etc.
 
  I cannot see or tell what becomes of the lower part of that right arm, or virtually anything of the left arm – but it doesn’t appear to me that it could, from such angle, be bent over in such way to have hand over head as with the Apollo Lykeios – (or am I thinking of yet a different one?).

  Of course Mars or Virtus doesn’t seem to make any sense in the composition, where Apollo does  (Yes, I do pay attention to what you well-teach Pat! ).
  On closer looking, the whole seems even more confusing.
 
  I've re-sketched what I see that I'm most 'certain' is there and actually part of the image(s).
  There are parts there too, that I can't account for - die-flaw? 'double-struck?' - ?
 
  I wonder, Aerich?  Could I trouble you perhaps for a larger image of this reverse?  If you have one, you could email it to me?
  I would really like to see this ‘better’, but enlarging in PS only allows so far & so much.
 
 
      Best,
      Tia
 
Facilius per partes in cognitionem totius adducimur.  ~ Seneca
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Offline areich

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Re: Commodus AE25
« Reply #6 on: March 26, 2007, 03:13:46 pm »
Thanks Tia, I just sent you a larger raw image.

Andreas
Andreas Reich

Offline Tiathena

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Re: Commodus AE25
« Reply #7 on: March 26, 2007, 04:18:12 pm »
 
   Ave Andreas!
 
  Got it, thank you!
  Am looking at it here & believe now (much better image to study closely!) I see something not visible before.
  I’ll try to trace it out and see what you & anyone else may think.
 
  I’d also like to hear from someone with a decent grasp of such things (Mark, perhaps?) – what is it that causes the sort of ‘rutted wear’ on surfaces such as on this coin?
  Looking at it ‘up close’ – it reminds me of some sort of ‘water damage’ or such – I don’t think that can be it though… (?)
  One more for my infinite-curiosities!
 
   Best,
   Tia
 
  Will Post my ‘tracing’ in a bit
 
Facilius per partes in cognitionem totius adducimur.  ~ Seneca
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Offline Tiathena

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Re: Commodus AE25
« Reply #8 on: March 26, 2007, 05:53:53 pm »
 
    Well, of course sometimes one can just stare at – or into – something for too long, and I may have done so with Andreas’ coin reverse here.
 
  With what my eyes tell me is a much better image (thank you again Andreas) – I show below what I now ‘see.’
  That I ‘see it’ of course is no guarantee these elements are such, however much they may seem so to me.
 
   For my ‘color coded segments:’ *
 
Off-white: the main forms of the figure’s body; head, neck, torso, arms (partial) and legs (seemingly grossly disproportionate to the whole).

Blue: What appears to me the sole garment worn by a figure nude to the waist.

Yellow: An oval shape that would appear to be a shield at-side, upon which the left hand has awkward hold and the figure leans.
 
Red: An distinct mass of (to me) utterly un-attributable form.  It would seem to be 'a part,' but the wildest flights of my imagination cannot bring it into the composition.
 
  This composition is a strange one – to my eyes – and the question may rest more on what is wrong with it than anything else.
 
  For myself, I rather suspect something was amiss with the die, or this was poorly struck (to put it politely).
  Long and closely as I have looked, I can in no way account for the ‘truth’ regarding the right arm, though all else considered and the tiny fragment that yet exists (and is apparent), it would seem to be held in an upward position – (somehow).
  The right foot clearly crosses over the exergual line.
  The legs are too short, the torso (and I think also the left arm) too long.
 
   But as I say – just my take and what I see.
  If not too far-off, perhaps someone may gather something from it – enough to provide a direction to look further?
 
 


  Larger version:
 
 

 
    Best,
    Tia
 
Facilius per partes in cognitionem totius adducimur.  ~ Seneca
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Offline areich

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Re: Commodus AE25
« Reply #9 on: March 27, 2007, 03:44:42 pm »
That's VERY good Tia. The 'tree' really seems to be and old scratch, I'm pretty sure it's not part of the design.
But the left (the figure's right) arm still seems to be held up like in my 'drawing'.

Andreas
Andreas Reich

Offline Tiathena

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Re: Commodus AE25
« Reply #10 on: March 27, 2007, 05:26:27 pm »
 
      Hi Andreas,
 
  Thanks!
  &nd again for sending the better and larger photo.
 
  I am intrigued by this one, I must say.
  Like blinking over a Rorschach ink blot, I can sometimes see that raised right arm.  I excluded it from my primitive little sketch above, only because I can’t find any good way to bring that (red outlined) mass into the composition: it makes the torso just brutishly broad it seems to me. (?)
  Not that this engraver had any genius for well-proportioned features it seems.
 
  I wonder really – perhaps a broken die? ..or at least a pitifully worn one near the brink?
 
  To my best ‘reasoning’ – as you show in your sketch – it does seem that (red outlined) mass is part of the torso – including, perhaps good trace outline of the raised right arm; but it has been ‘split-away-from’ the body by whatever anomaly.
  If it’s not just such part – I really have no idea whatsoever…
 
  What do you think about the ‘shield at side’ element, having the coin I hand?
 
   Best,
   Tia
  
 P.S. – I agree, the ‘tree’ appears to be just an old scratch, one of two – as it seems there is another quite like it, slightly fainter, just to the right..?
 
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Offline areich

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Re: Commodus AE25
« Reply #11 on: March 28, 2007, 01:40:07 am »
You are right on all these counts. There seems to be damage (whether to the coin or already to the die I have no idea) to the left of the torso. This makes it possible that the red area is in fact the arm hanging down, because what I first took for the arm is very broad, but looking at it now I can't decide on one of these possibilities. The harm is probably hanging down.
I'm almost certain about the shield, it's raised and curved and really looks like in your drawing.


Andreas
Andreas Reich

 

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