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Author Topic: Collection Strategies for the New Collector  (Read 36230 times)

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Offline SC

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Re: Collection Strategies for the New Collector
« Reply #25 on: November 08, 2012, 02:50:36 pm »
Extremely wise words from Automan.

Researching and cataloguing make up a huge part of the enjoyment of the hobby for me.  I enjoy "the search" and occasionally handling or reorganizing my collection too but it is the time spent in looking up, attributing and generally researching that interests me most (and is leading me to wider writing).  And, like Automan says it can be a good form of escape / stress release for those of the appropriate personality.

Also the danger of reaching the "full" level on a collection and losing interest is a real one.  My previous collection involved WWII uniforms from one country.  This meant few items, hence few purchases and few "conquests", not much chance for research, etc.  It also meant that one day I was done.  I had all I had set out for - the complete set.  Oh, I had many other little associated things I could have gotten over time but that was the day the interest began to die.  It took several years to completely die and many years to sell the collection.

As a result I have not specialized too narrowly when it comes to coins.  It is important to me to know that there are always a great many coins out there that I need (OK, want).  I intend this to be the hobby I still have when I finally depart, cast off, am no more, am pining for the fiords, etc. though I may have a very different coin collection by then.

Shawn
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Offline Platon

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Re: Collection Strategies for the New Collector
« Reply #26 on: December 01, 2012, 12:51:46 am »
Do many collectors try and collect a portrait of each Roman ruler/emperor? Obviously there is some debate on who counts and such, but it doesn't seem to be an impossible task. With this goal in mind is how I am beginning my collection anyways. I have almost all of the 4th century rulers from uncleaned coin lots and I am starting to chip away at the 3rd century rulers. Since it is nice to have variety I am also working my way up from the bottom, as I have a Nero, Vespasian and five silver coins of the five good emperors (including a beat up Nerva I got for $35). I figure that with a few rare exceptions I could probably do it in my lifetime.

I have been collecting ancient coins for only about six months and I have about 25 rulers so far, not a bad start! Of course it will only get harder, but hopefully as I get older my budget will also increase. In addition to the ruler project I am also building a decent collection of 4th century coins which will be an area I can specialize in on the side.

Offline dougsmit

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Re: Collection Strategies for the New Collector
« Reply #27 on: December 01, 2012, 06:01:50 am »
I disagree with the idea of one coin per ruler or any other preset pattern.  I do not buy randomly but instead I buy coins that speak to me at the moment.  Later I tend to find patterns in what I bought that I did not know existed.  That way I buy coins I like rather than coins I thought I needed but that really meant nothing to me.  As a result, there are rulers that I have never owned a coin of after nearly 50 years and others represented by over 500 specimens.  There are as many ways to collect as there are collectors.  The advice I see above that I really agree with is the matter of not being in a rush.  Learn as much as you can first and find coins that your education tells you are better for you rather than grabbing the first available coin you see.  If you must be a one-per collector, make that one something special for that ruler.  That might mean a particularly distinctive portrait (Nerva had a nose, Maximinus had chin, Probus had quite a varied wardrobe) or a particularly historically appropriate reverse (Constans sailed to Britain, Hadrian traveled the world, Septimius Severus honored his legions that put him in power).  Leave the boring coins to specialists that try to get everything so they need the boring ones. 

Throughout my collecting history I have had two parallel collections.  One is some specialty where I'm trying to get something specific (Septimius Severus Eastern denarii, technical oddities, Greek silver smaller than an obol - there have been many of them over the years).  The second consists of coins that spoke to me and I bought simply because I wanted them without actually understanding why.   This is also where I put the 'bargains' I run across when a big hoard is being dispersed or a specialized collection brings things to market that you don't see everyday.   This is where that studying you were advised to do comes in.  After you study for twenty years or so you start to see a difference between random accumulation and the organized chaos I call a collection.

If you don't enjoy it, you are doing it wrong.  This is a hobby.  It should be fun.

Offline benito

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Re: Collection Strategies for the New Collector
« Reply #28 on: December 01, 2012, 07:14:16 am »
I have a problem. There are too many coins that speak to me at a given moment ( and not enough $$$$$$ )

Offline Platon

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Re: Collection Strategies for the New Collector
« Reply #29 on: December 01, 2012, 12:56:53 pm »

If you don't enjoy it, you are doing it wrong.  This is a hobby.  It should be fun.

I enjoy what I've done so far very much. I also have far less $$$ to spend on coins than many people on this site. I've only spent $30+ on a coin twice, but I still got coins that I liked and for good prices too.

Online Mat

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Re: Collection Strategies for the New Collector
« Reply #30 on: December 01, 2012, 01:00:59 pm »
I collect the one coin per emperor. Ive been collecting for almost 4 years now and my trend hasnt changed.

I do have a soft spot for the empresses and thats what I tend to focus on. But if I can get a footnote emperor for a good price I will gladly add it.

I dont focus on trying to get extreme rarity emperors and such.
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Offline Adrian W

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Re: Collection Strategies for the New Collector
« Reply #31 on: December 01, 2012, 01:27:27 pm »
Everyone has their collecting styles and none are  the wrong way or correct way it all depends on what works for you.I like the research as others do,I was trying to get all of the emperors also as I though that was a good goal but as has been mentioned its not possible to get ALL of them.I just did pick up a Nepotian which I will have access too when I get to the UK in about 2 weeks to be with my family.Not sure if I will keep it or sell it not decided on that yet.

In the end I found the later emperor coins to be rather boring and not much eye appeal though historically interesting.I do like the large bronzes particularly Trajan and Hadrian but I try and get ones that are not just the various deities.I like the ones of Hadrian travelling around or that tell  a story such as the emperor giving out money or a bridge they built.

I did find that for about $30 a coin I could pick some really nice Constantine coins in very good shape and he has lots of varities.The nice thing is that you can collect on the low end price wise and have an interesting collection that friends will be amazed over  or go high end in the many thousands a coin with incredible detail as this hobby appears to all groups.

So its all your choice and do it the way you enjoy it the most.I have a slightly different spending budget as I buy and sell lots of items on Ebay and what I make from that goes into my coin fund that way I can buy a number of coins a year and not affect the family budget.

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Offline SC

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Re: Collection Strategies for the New Collector
« Reply #32 on: December 03, 2012, 04:43:30 am »
As Benito says there is an entire chorus of coins speaking, singing and babbling to me at any one time.  So one obviously has to specialize a bit.  And I agree very much with Doug in that it helps to have more than one collection going at any given time.

I have several collections on the go but my first was an Emperor's portrait collection (actually "issuers" is a better term though kind of ugly as it includes Empresses, Caesars and usurpers).  For a long time I only used uncleaned coins I "discovered" in lots, and purchases of Emperors for no more than $25.  I actually got the vast majority of this collection in this way.  While I have since changed some for better coins I think I originally got 68 or 69 different issuers this way so as you can see with patience it is possible to build a large collection like this. Some were lucky uncleaned hits (Quintillus, Decentius, Magnus Maximus) while some were really rough and ugly junk box finds (Caligula, Nero, Vetranio).  I got a good deal of help with the mid-3rd century issuers via the PMS COL VIM series of large provincial bronzes. 

However, I eventually broke this pattern by buying an Aemilian antoninianus for 50 Euro on a trip to Paris.  Since then I continue to pursue this collection by buying a few more rare issuers though it is not my top priority.  Thus I have no Otho, Vitellius, Niger, Didianus or Albinus in my collection.  With what I have spent on my other collecting priorities I could have found coins of these Emperors but it is simply not my highest priority.  For example a couple of weeks ago I had a nice Quietus Ant picked out but then ended up spending my money on something more related to my main interest (LRBCs) instead.  Nevertheless, I still have this "Emperor" collection active and have it all in a nice wooden case.

I just wanted to share my experience.  As many people under this topic have said do what works best for you and what makes you happy.  Go into other, new, directions, putting your original ideas on hold or even leaving them entirely, when and if it suits you.  For most of us this is just a hobby - though a great one - and should be enjoyed.

Shawn




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Offline frgreg

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Re: Collection Strategies for the New Collector
« Reply #33 on: December 03, 2012, 07:04:21 am »
I don't think there a right or wrong way to collect.  I started with the 12 Caesars, but have since moved on to coins with a 'story' that I find interesting.  For some emperors that means more than one coin.    For other emperors - it means no coins, at least for now.
I like to look at a coin and know why that coin is special.

Greg

Offline Andrew McCabe

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Re: Collection Strategies for the New Collector
« Reply #34 on: December 03, 2012, 07:29:43 am »
I've yo-yo'd several times. I started by collecting pretty denarii with nice images. I moved onto collecting high end, including aes grave, some gold, better imperatorial. I sold a bunch. I started collecting nice condition struck bronzes. I completely stopped collecting a while. I started collecting rare but identifiable dogs, and odd varieties. I resumed collecting nice coins. I sold my Italian provincial coin types, imitative types and such like. I more or less completed my collection of RR coins (yes, I had all the types, or practically so), but realised that half were not pretty or even legible. I started an upgrade programme, disposing of duplicates, and achieved some important milestones, e.g. a complete run of decent Caesar portrait and of Antony legionary types. I started to sell all the not-pretty or not legible types, and am in the process of reducing my collection size by about half (numerically). I've resuming collecting high-end silver and bronzes, but not gold or aes grave, or rare-but-worn types. These changes in direction seem to take place every 3 to 5 years or so. I have absolutely no idea what I will be collecting in 2020. Perhaps teddy bears.

Offline dougsmit

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Re: Collection Strategies for the New Collector
« Reply #35 on: December 05, 2012, 05:32:36 am »
I've yo-yo'd several times. ------ I have absolutely no idea what I will be collecting in 2020. Perhaps teddy bears.

The interest I find here is that Andrew is the most loyal collector I know.  In all his yo-yoing, his string never left Roman Republican.  When he branches out he travels to Imperatorial.  Most of us, when we decide to wander, get some Greek or maybe even Indian.  I trust that his Teddy Bears will be Brutus and Cincinnatus.  I admire his completeness making his collection catalog a major reference while mine is only a poor beginners guide.

Offline Sosius

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Re: Collection Strategies for the New Collector
« Reply #36 on: January 31, 2013, 03:26:01 pm »
There is truly no one way to collect, and I don't collect in just one way.  However, over the past few years, I have made an effort an effort to collect all the Roman emperors, and I am pretty much done (depending on when I want to stop).  A collection with all usurpers, empresses, family members, etc. would be nearly impossible.  Photos of my collection are posted here:  https://www.forumancientcoins.com/board/index.php?topic=85974.0

Would I recommend this strategy as a sole collecting strategy?  Probably not, and I have not limited myself to it.  I do like the thrill of the chase, though, and it's fun getting an example from a short-lived emperor.

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Offline JBF

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Re: Collection Strategies for the New Collector
« Reply #37 on: February 01, 2013, 02:12:45 am »
My collecting is a little different, I got into ancient numismatics with a goal of finding out about Greek material culture, and also finding out about Greek poleis other than Athens.  My academic background is in ancient philosophy, and in ancient literature (philosophical or other wise), one hears so much about AthensAthens is great!  But I wanted to hear about other Greek cities.  I also wanted to know about what was not written.  Pottery and statuary were way too much for me to even imagine collecting.  But coins, that I could manage.

Anyone who is "Athenocentric" should compare Athenian coinage to that of Syracuse.  Scholars who dedicate themselves to just the literary tradition miss so much!  There is a lot of history hidden in Greek coinage.  Of course, Roman coinage is very rich in history, but to me it seems like well travelled ground which I leave others to explore.

And lo and behold, surprise! surprise!  Coins got me back into philosophy, with the Pythagorean coins of Kroton and Metapontum (at least _I_ think they're Pythagorean, and I dare anyone to refute my theories!)  ;D  Okay maybe not "dare" is the right word, but I welcome any feedback.  Point is, though, that I went into not necessarily knowing were it would lead me, and as a reward for following it, I believe that I have discovered a few things, including things about myself ;)

For the novice collector, I report the story of the Zen master and his student:  One day a student met his master on a bridge and asked the master "what is the meaning of life?"  The master suddenly reached out and grabbed the student by his shirt and belt.  He threw him overboard and yelled "swim!"

You don't have to swim, if you don't want to.  But once you get used to the temperature, the water is fine.

Kind Regards,

John

Offline Paddy

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Re: Collection Strategies for the New Collector
« Reply #38 on: February 11, 2013, 04:47:29 pm »
What about specialising in legionary denarii? Thats the path I am tempted to take.


Is that a good idea or are there any drawbacks to it?

Patrik

Offline areich

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Re: Collection Strategies for the New Collector
« Reply #39 on: February 11, 2013, 05:12:17 pm »
If you are interested in them, it is a good idea. But don't choose a specialty, just because you think you have to. It's perfectly fine to collect a while (or for ever), without any specialty. If you choose a popular specialty, be prepared to spend money on good and rare examples. I, like many others, decided to collect Provincial bronzes depicting the labors of Herakles. A fine and interesting focus but difficult on a budget so I very quickly gave it up. Having a specialty you truly like can be very rewarding and if you're truly motivated and pick something off the beaten path, it is possible for a collector to make a real contribution to numismatic knowledge.
Andreas Reich

Offline dougsmit

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Re: Collection Strategies for the New Collector
« Reply #40 on: February 12, 2013, 07:25:57 pm »
I sincerely believe in the old saying, "Know a little about everything and everything about a little."  In this case that means have a specialty and a general collection at the same time.  If, for example you go to a coin show and there are no good looking Legionary coins, you can be happy to buy a coin completely different from anything you have just because it appeals to you. 

Another point is that many ancients I value the most are things I did not even know existed before I saw one for sale.  As a new collector you are aware that Legionaries exist but you may not suspect a hundred other specialties might also be of interest to you.  Having an open mind to coins outside your specialty can be both educational and fun. 

When you say 'Legionary' I wonder if you mean Antony only or coins of all of the rulers that issued Legionary types?  If the latter, you are invited to look at my assemblage of Legionary coins of Septimius Severus:
https://www.forumancientcoins.com/dougsmith/legions.html
There are five more pages of them linked at the bottom of that first page. 

There are several other rulers with Legionaries as well.

Offline Paddy

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Re: Collection Strategies for the New Collector
« Reply #41 on: February 13, 2013, 11:36:48 am »
The reason I was thinking about legionary, is because it's so tangible. If we take Mark Anthony's legionary denaries, as an example, I would assume that we have some idea of how many there were.  I am a newcomer to the world of coins, and so it offers an easy gateway into some form of specialisation.

Not sure yet, though.

I think I am simply going to go ahead and buy some coins that look interesting, and decide later what I will specialise in. I think this is better, to start with. Will allow me to buy some coins,, learn more, and then decide.


Offline Andrew McCabe

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Re: Collection Strategies for the New Collector
« Reply #42 on: February 13, 2013, 11:55:43 am »
The reason I was thinking about legionary, is because it's so tangible. If we take Mark Anthony's legionary denaries, as an example, I would assume that we have some idea of how many there were.  I am a newcomer to the world of coins, and so it offers an easy gateway into some form of specialisation.

Not sure yet, though.

I think I am simply going to go ahead and buy some coins that look interesting, and decide later what I will specialise in. I think this is better, to start with. Will allow me to buy some coins,, learn more, and then decide.



It is tangible and it is a great idea. There is a great Forvm sticky thread on the series here:

https://www.forumancientcoins.com/board/index.php?topic=70907.0

One of my web-pages is mainly devoted to legionaries:

http://andrewmccabe.ancients.info/RRC544.html

and there are very good books that talk about each legion, and the legions in general:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Legions-Rome-definitive-history-legion/dp/1849162301

of course the legionary series also gives you access to the whole Antony and Cleopatra saga, so there's all sorts of wider historical interests.

They are also very collectible, as in, it's a great struggle to get all of them, there are many unrecorded stylistic varieties, and it's a challenge, but not too much a challenge, to get coins with good silver surfaces, clear numbers, cleanly struck with clear galleys. Yes of course you can get all those attributes for $2000 per coin, but the real triumph comes from getting a decent legionary for $200! It can also be wonderful to start with $20 worn-flat legionaries, where the sense of triumph comes from getting a positive ID on the number.

Perhaps an obvious downside is that nice examples are darn expensive relative to how common they are. Other coin series will give you prettier coins at lower prices. And the types don't vary a lot...

Still, one could always start here and go on to other areas (Republican bronzes, which I always advocate as an immensely interesting series, with a focus on the second Punic war movements of Hannibal and his Roman adverseries, and where low budget collectors can gather some real rarities)

Offline Lucas H

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Re: Collection Strategies for the New Collector
« Reply #43 on: February 13, 2013, 11:57:38 am »
Quote
The reason I was thinking about legionary, is because it's so tangible. If we take Mark Anthony's legionary denaries, as an example, I would assume that we have some idea of how many there were.

see Andrew and Jay's posts here among others:  https://www.forumancientcoins.com/board/index.php?topic=70907.0

Quote
I think I am simply going to go ahead and buy some coins that look interesting, and decide later what I will specialise in. I think this is better, to start with. Will allow me to buy some coins,, learn more, and then decide.

Unless you have a passion for something from the outset, this is probably the best approach.  I dabbled in this, and then that, before narrowing into my collection area for my own reasons.  After having some of these, and some of those, and a couple of these, I found I wasn't passionate about what initially caught my attention, and delved into something else.  

Offline Paddy

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Re: Collection Strategies for the New Collector
« Reply #44 on: February 13, 2013, 02:22:19 pm »
I have to say that I am not only impressed with your knowledge, but also how you all take the the time to give what I consider really good answers and excellent feedback. It's really quite impressive, actually.

To be quite honest, I have had my eye on an Augustus Ar denari for the last week or so. It's a coin that  is really in the wrong  price range compared to what I should buy, but  Augustus is Augustus. It would also be the crown in a twelve caesar collection, as a side collection to what I decide to focus on.



Offline Lucas H

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Re: Collection Strategies for the New Collector
« Reply #45 on: February 14, 2013, 08:49:02 am »
Quote
To be quite honest, I have had my eye on an Augustus Ar denari for the last week or so. It's a coin that  is really in the wrong  price range compared to what I should buy, but  Augustus is Augustus. It would also be the crown in a twelve caesar collection, as a side collection to what I decide to focus on.

Collect what you like.  Some of the denarii of Augustus are very nice and scarce, but due to the length of his reign, overall, there are lots out there.  In the 12 Caesars, Caligula and Claudius can be most challenging however if you want denarii

 https://www.forumancientcoins.com/board/index.php?topic=58445.0

https://www.forumancientcoins.com/board/index.php?topic=72226.0




Offline Paddy

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Re: Collection Strategies for the New Collector
« Reply #46 on: February 16, 2013, 02:48:13 pm »
About themes for collecting, Sears lists some of the possible themes for collecting:


* Portrait gallery - as many different emperors and empresses as possible

* Illustrating the many personifications, gods and godesses which appear on the coinage

* Arrangement of collection according to mints

* Arrangement by dates (this one he says is very much neglected)


To this list we can we can add

* Legionary denari

* Twelve Caesars

I think it's easier for a beginner to understand what options there are if they get a shorter more concise overview like this to start out with. Please feel free to add to the list.

Someone also mentioned that if you specialise, be aware that some of the rarest coins might be out of your price range. I think this is a valid consideration that should be taken into account before deciding.


Offline areich

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Re: Collection Strategies for the New Collector
« Reply #47 on: February 16, 2013, 03:19:49 pm »
Andreas Reich

Offline Daniel R5

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Re: Collection Strategies for the New Collector
« Reply #48 on: November 20, 2016, 05:39:46 pm »
When I began with ancients there was no strategy.  I was accustomed to 19th century U.S. material so how could I possibly have a strategy in an area of numismatics where there were few straight lines?  So at first I dabbled.  A few early Greek, couple of Roman Republics, a few late Romans..but never could I stomach that awful looking Byzantine material!  So I thought.

Today, a few years later, I have sent all but a few of my late Roman material back to Forum and the credit used for two main collections with their sub groups of my definition.  I picked up John Julius Norwich's "A Short History of Byzantium" and could not put it down. Once I finished, I began looking at Byzantine coins in a whole new light.  So my main collection became Byzantine material, of which I prefer gold and silver issues.  Of course there are many bronze issues in the collection as well.  I wanted to show the story of the evolution and tragic decay of the Byzantines through their coinage--which is not that difficult.  So I continue on this course today, albeit slowly. I probably have about 30 or more books about Byzantium on my shelf now in addition to Byzantine related numismatic books.

The second collection is Jewish and Biblical timeline material. Christians owe their heritage to the Jews and these bronze issues have veered me into a bit of Biblical archaeological studies as well (more books...). The numismatic subgroups I have developed are: Jewish issues, Coins of the travels of Paul, Coins in general circulation in the Holy Land during and after the time of Christ, coins from the towns of the churches of Revelations.  In other words I have put ancient coins into a Biblical context. 

Overall I am very satisfied with my progress and discipline to set up my own themes to organize a collection of ancients. So the takeaway here is that the new collector can and should buy what they like and not worry too much about a strict protocol.  You will develop your own direction over time and with additional study. The key is to feel free to buy, study, learn, and grow in the rich fabric that is ancient numismatics.

DR

Offline djmacdo

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Re: Collection Strategies for the New Collector
« Reply #49 on: November 21, 2016, 08:17:47 am »
I seldom disagree with Curtis Clay, but here I must. For some of us at least, the motives of collecting are far different than he suggests.  For me, it is clearly compulsive, a way of burning off excessive needs to organize and systematize that would otherwise hamper daily activities.  I also find collecting fascinating, a chance to learn something new about the past.   I think there are virtually as many forms of collecting as there are collectors.  Some for high art, others for condition, some fascinated by particular themes such a Biblical related coins, or particular eras such as the Flavian emperors or the house of Constantine.  One could list many specialties, and it seems to me so much variation cannot be all be explained by just two or even a short list of motivations.

As for new collectors, each will evolve, just as we older collectors have, before finally finding the niche which best fits.  One piece of advice.  For a few dollars one can buy a cd containing thousands of dollars worth of books and the great catalogues such as the British Museum, McClean, and others.  Get, read, look at the pictures--greatest education in ancient coins available and available for virtually nothing.

 

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