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Author Topic: Caligula DVD  (Read 7780 times)

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Offline helvetica

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Caligula DVD
« on: June 25, 2007, 12:29:22 pm »
My daughter was in a multimedia store and saw a DVD with Peter O'Toole and Malcolm MacDowell, called "Caligula". Thinking it would be a great gift for me, she bought it.
Well, I started to watch it the other night and, being a bit of a prude by modern standards, I was so shocked I took the DVD out after 15 minutes or so. The first 15 minutes are what I would class as hardcore porn. I was shocked in the first couple of minutes (scene of C. and a girl on the ground in a forest), but I thought "oops, I bet they didn't mean to get THAT view of the girl onto the film".... :o (Five minutes later I realised they were getting that "view" deliberately).. And whoever heard of road workers in Rome working in total nudity ????

So if you see it in a shop and think you're getting a historical film (like Titus with Sir Anthony Hopkins), forget it..
Having said that, some of you fellahs may enjoy it..  ;D

Offline curtislclay

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Re: Caligula DVD
« Reply #1 on: June 25, 2007, 01:02:43 pm »
Fake Report posted, I hope?
Curtis Clay

Offline bruce61813

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Re: Caligula DVD
« Reply #2 on: June 25, 2007, 01:04:18 pm »
That movie would be a shock! It was made over 20 years ago, and made quite stir as it was X-rated.  I am surprised it wasn't marked.

Bruce
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Offline DruMAX

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Re: Caligula DVD
« Reply #3 on: June 25, 2007, 01:26:43 pm »
oddly it had some good actors in it...once penthouse got a hold of it, it was all over...though any movie about caligula probably wouldnt be childrens entertainment.

Offline David Atherton

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Re: Caligula DVD
« Reply #4 on: June 25, 2007, 01:35:03 pm »
I love Peter O'Toole dearly...but I can't think of any nice things to say about this movie.

A million dollar porno. What a waste.

Offline Oblomov

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Re: Caligula DVD
« Reply #5 on: June 26, 2007, 04:57:50 am »
It's not one of my favorite films, but I didn't hate it.

Caligula's sex life probably was a bit... erm... lurid.  :-X

And he probably did see Tiberius cavorting with the "minnows."

Also, that large, mobile decapitation machine was cool -- if not historicaly accurate.  :evil:

I could have done without that wedding scene, though.  :o

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Re: Caligula DVD
« Reply #6 on: June 26, 2007, 10:58:40 am »
There were some good acting performances from Peter O'Toole and Malcolm McDowell. I loved the music too. :)

Offline Robert_Brenchley

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Re: Caligula DVD
« Reply #7 on: June 26, 2007, 12:56:57 pm »
He figures largely in 'I Claudius', and that's so respectable they even include orgies without revealing anything you wouldn't want a primary school kid to see. Except, possibly, when he gets killed, of course.
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Offline DruMAX

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Re: Caligula DVD
« Reply #8 on: June 26, 2007, 02:19:02 pm »
Now I, Claudius...that was the book (and 12 part mini series) that awakened my interest in ancient Rome.

As for Caligula...I tend to think that the movie could have been REAL GOOD if it had not been funded by penthouse who added in pornographic sex scenes that were obviously just hap hazard thrown in with no real need (then again, the need for a lesbian scene is relative :)) and some other scenes that just didnt make sense but gave them a chance to show more nudity and sex.

The ORIGINAL screenplay was written by Gore Vidal who wrote another historical fiction along the lines of 'I, Claudius' called 'Julian II' which I enjoyed reading so I had high hopes.

I DID like some of the scenes and some of the performances...particularly the death scene of Nerva played by John Gielgud and certainly Peter O' Toole was a perfect choice for Tiberius. Helen Mirren as Caesonia was also a high point. Malcolm McDowell, IMO, was a pretty good Caligula as well. How they played Claudius I did NOT like and John Hurt...in my humble opinion...was a much better Caligula in 'I, Claudius'

All in all, it could have been a great historical (fiction) movie...it had great actors, a great script, an army of costumers and set designers. Its just that it was funded by Bob Guccione and he is a pornographer thus he had to throw in sex scenes. To their credit, Peter O'Toole and John Gielgud claimed to have been unaware hardcore sex footage was being shot for the film and Writer Gore Vidal did not want credit for his work once he found out there would be pornographic scenes with no real reason.

"The full-scale Roman vessel, complete with 120 hand-carved oars, was the largest prop ever built at that time; it was over 175 feet long and 30 feet high and The stadium spanned the length of three US football fields, and featured a 'headclipper' that was 5 stories high and 150 feet wide."

I think you could make a movie of Caligula without it being pornographic...its just a lot of what is said about him, if you are to depict it, it would be very graphic, gory, lot of death and murder and concepts such as incest would be a pretty heavy topic for a child....


 





Offline slokind

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Re: Caligula DVD
« Reply #9 on: June 26, 2007, 07:05:02 pm »
Gosh, you've almost sold me on the DVD.  I don't think I ever saw a porn film worthy of the claim (the opening scene of Hiroshima, mon amour hardly counts, I think), and it couldn't be more explicit than some of Hokusai's prints, and I do have a fast-forward button, after all, so if I'm to see one, that cast is hard to resist, especially since I harbor a covert fondness for Gore Vidal.  I might not recommend it for adolescents or for persons in their mid-life crises, of course.  Since I hardly believe that that cast didn't know what they were into, I think it may be fun to watch them discreetly enjoying themselves.  Pat L.

basemetal

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Re: Caligula DVD
« Reply #10 on: June 26, 2007, 07:48:29 pm »
Hi Helvetica.
Brace yourself, but the girl Caligula was with in the forest was supposed to be none other than Drusilla-his sister. 
Bruce

Offline wolfgang336

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Re: Caligula DVD
« Reply #11 on: June 26, 2007, 09:21:12 pm »
My friends and I consider it the lowest point in film making history...
What I don't understand however, is the claim made by O'Toole that he wasn't aware of any of the pornographic scenes! Surely he must've known *something* was up when they shot the Isle of Capri scene.

Evan

basemetal

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Re: Caligula DVD
« Reply #12 on: June 26, 2007, 09:59:47 pm »
Caligula makes the movie  Gladiator look like an historical documentary.

However, I love Peter O'toole as an actor.

To vaguely paraphrase him in Becket (1964), his line when asked by Thomas why he would tax the church for his French campaign when no one has done it before:
"Dammit Thomas, I've never been this poor before!"
Another paraphrase:
"You see Thomas, they are my men, my loyal nobles, yes, but they really don't trust me.  You see, I can read."
Henry  then asks one of the nobles about this.  The nobleman replies:
"Readins for clods"
Magnificent.

Bruce


jamesicus

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Re: Caligula DVD
« Reply #13 on: June 26, 2007, 11:16:16 pm »
This is indeed a bizarre movie to me. A travesty in a way -- such great acting talent squandered on such a tawdry production. I am certainly no prude, but it is painful for me watch such a towering actor as John Gielgud in such a nasty concoction.

James

Offline DruMAX

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Re: Caligula DVD
« Reply #14 on: June 26, 2007, 11:43:54 pm »
My friends and I consider it the lowest point in film making history...
What I don't understand however, is the claim made by O'Toole that he wasn't aware of any of the pornographic scenes! Surely he must've known *something* was up when they shot the Isle of Capri scene.

Evan

You and your friends haven't seen a lot of movies :) I say this because, while it wasn't the best movie out there...it was no 'Ernest goes to camp' :)

I can see how they might not have been privy to the hard core porn scenes.  It is completely believable that while they were aware it would be risqué, sexually explicit film and gory. Neither O'Toole or Gielgud were in any terribly graphic scenes and none of the scenes were pornographic...those scenes were placed in using people who were not main players...No scenes that they were in would warrant more than a hard 'R' rating. If you have seen the uncut version you will know that almost all the actual actors have no part in the hard pornographic scenes...in fact those scenes were shot separately and placed in...Malcolm McDowell is in alot of scenes with nudity and simulated sex, but none of it x-rated.

For example the lesbian scene where Caligula looks through a curtain or hole in the wall (been years since I have seen the movie) and takes a peek at two servant ladies...It is easy to see that what could have been a quick peek (that had nothing to do with a story line) became a prolonged lesbian scene that he was in no way a part of.

Also the most sexually explicit scene where Caligula was pimping the senatorial wives...the graphic pornographic orgy scenes were spliced in...

Most of the actors had no part in the hard pornographic elements. There is a long story about the 4 years it took to make this movie, probably more interesting than the movie itself.

There is a cut version with these pornographic scenes removed and you wouldn't know they were gone as they, for the most part, have nothing to do with the movie.

It is historical fiction at its worst without doubt. Imagine after reading every awful thing written about Caligula and know that the film proceeds to present these as all true with no asterisk to explain that it might not be as it was reported by some sources. There are also completely fictional scenes thrown in.

Even with the porno cut, its graphic and violent. Caligula makes his visit to the wedding of Livia and Proculus and proceeds to give the bride (and the groom) a present from a God involving a greased fist for Proculus. He finds a guard drunk on duty, force feeds him wine then drains it from his belly with a sword, people are killed in brutal manners with blades and heavy mallets to the head. A bizarre sexual circus at Tiberius's palace on Capri (again, the pornographic scenes are not shot with Tiberius there) and Tiberius swims with his little minnows. Gore, sex, death, and violence abounds. Like said before, there is nudity that seems to have no reason or make sense like the nude workers in the city.

There ARE some good scenes...O'Toole is a perfect Tiberius in my humble opinion...old, at the end of his life, perverted, diseased, jaded and malignant...vain, wearing an obvious wig, thin and boney......the scene as he stamps his seal on official decrees...bored...wanting to get back to his fun but resigned to the fact that it is required of him......telling Caligula he knows he has nursed a viper. later the scene with Caligula who is required to do the same but he has no patience and loses it, stamping faster and faster. The scene when Caligula thinks Tiberius is dead, pry's the signet ring off his finger before he wakes up only to be killed by Caligula who doesnt want to explain or wait any longer, the Death scene of Nerva as he speaks of the past, the awful present, and the probable future as he relieves himself of life, no longer able or willing to continue, Caligula the viper will bring trouble...played with Patrician dignity, duty and honor, extreme disappointment and the last insult as he dies. Among others, they are good scenes which makes one a bit sad they couldn't have been the norm.

In the end Caligula is brutally killed as is his wife and his young childs head is bashed on the steps...

Its not an Oscar winner...but hardly the worst movie I have seen...not only that but I tend to enjoy movies about Rome even when they diverge from strict historical accuracy or arent that great...I read history books for my history and watch movies for entertainment...If nothing else...it was interesting...




Offline areich

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Re: Caligula DVD
« Reply #15 on: June 27, 2007, 12:21:09 am »
So is a 'cut' version available? From your post it sounds as if it would be just as easy to
cut those scenes out again and have a decent film.
Andreas Reich

Offline LordBest

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Re: Caligula DVD
« Reply #16 on: June 27, 2007, 01:37:57 am »
I thought it was pretty dull, to be honest. Trying to show the sexual decadence of Caligula is fine, but it just came accross as silly and a bit immature, for me atleast.
                                                              LordBest. 8)

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Re: Caligula DVD
« Reply #17 on: June 27, 2007, 01:38:44 am »
meantime, Caligula's denarii cost  what? 3-5 times more than Otho's ?, and  the latter one didnt even have  bronze coinage! Are they really that rare?

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Re: Caligula DVD
« Reply #18 on: June 27, 2007, 01:42:37 am »
So is a 'cut' version available? From your post it sounds as if it would be just as easy to
cut those scenes out again and have a decent film.

A decent film is always "uncut".  Common people, there are SO MUCH TRASH , ridiculously silly movies in Holliwood/ets,  save your breath on this one at least.
{off to watch  the movie}

Offline DruMAX

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Re: Caligula DVD
« Reply #19 on: June 27, 2007, 02:00:20 am »
yes, I guess that was my main point was that there IS a cut R-rated version. It does make it a DECENT film with some GOOD scenes as the pornographic scenes seem just added on willy nilly anyway and removing them does nothing to the actual story....It wont be for the purist who cannot stand a movie that takes license and isn't strictly historical but it does cover much of what I have read about Caligula (knowing that much is debated) from his time living with Tiberius on Capri to his death...His possible murder of Tiberius on his death bed, his insulting passwords for macro, his relationship with his sisters (and everyone else around him) his battle with Neptune, his addiction to the games, his fall into madness, becoming a god, His love of his horse, the senatorial brothel...it relates a lot of possible events such as the senator (I think) who thought he was dying, exclaims he would give his own life if the emperor would get better, the emperor taking him up on his offer....

There is a full length recut that puts some scenes in that were taken out...one gripe people had with the movie is the sloppy editing that was taken away from the director completely...there is a scene (pure fantasy) where there is a big red contraption (shown in the graphic) that chops peoples heads off who are condemned to die and are buried up to their heads...He and the crowd are enjoying watching the carnage and he sees Proculus and his soon to be wife being genuinely affectionate with each other...he doesn't like it and orders him to be thrown on the field...but Proculus fights and maneuvers himself out of harms way. This angers Caligula as the crowd cheers the hero (lower left photo)...but Caligula decides to be generous to look good and throws the hero his crown...he later pays a visit to his wedding and rapes his wife as a 'wedding gift' and what he does to Proculus I shouldn't say :) The scene was cut so in the cut version, you dont understand why he is so vengeful towards Proculus...There is a version with some scenes like this put back in...There is a Pornographic version, an R-rated version, and a recut version.
I have only seen the cinimatic release of the X and R rated version (this was years ago)...

Then again...I tend to like a lot of movies others disdain and forgive the problems of movies about Rome more than most simply because I just like that they tried :)

Offline areich

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Re: Caligula DVD
« Reply #20 on: June 27, 2007, 02:02:18 am »
From what I heard they made an okay film, then later added in porn
so it is logical to assume that MAYBE the studio later made a 'real' movie out of it.

I have no problem with porn, but it doesn't belong in a real movie.

And please don't call me 'common people', I am really very uncommon.  ;D


EDIT: Sorry, Drumax, I read your post to mean, 'even had the porno been cut out...'.
Andreas Reich

Offline David Atherton

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Re: Caligula DVD
« Reply #21 on: June 27, 2007, 02:31:10 am »
Roger Ebert's review of the film: http://rogerebert.suntimes.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/19800922/REVIEWS/9220301/1023

If you still want to see it after reading the review...God speed.

Offline DruMAX

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Re: Caligula DVD
« Reply #22 on: June 27, 2007, 02:58:04 am »
hehe...I agree with some of that...

Heres a few quotes from a Q&A about the film says it all I think:

Is Bob Guccione the director?

Not quite. Bob Guccione was the executive producer and after firing Tinto Brass from the director's/editor's chair, personally re-shot six minutes worth of sex scenes and ordered massive re-edits on the film. Still, 95% of the finished movie was directed by Tinto Brass, albeit not edited the way he intended.

Did Gore Vidal disown the film because Bob Guccione and Tinto Brass added explicit sex and gore to the film?
 
No. He disowned the film shortly after the principal photography began, when he found out that Tinto Brass and the lead actor, Malcolm McDowell, altered the film's historical drama into a surreal political satire. The botched film released today is the result of Giancarlo Lui's attempt to reconstruct Gore Vidal's original intention.


Is this film historically accurate?

Hardly. Most of the characters are condensed versions of various different historical figures, many have their real roles in the story changed, and some characters' fates are vastly altered. For example, Nerva STARVED himself to death in 33 a.d. and Drusilla died long before Caligula even met Caesonia. Also, all of Caligula's previous marriages are never mentioned and most of the sets, costumes and props in no way represent real Roman architecture or culture; they are, in fact, surreal and fantastical interpretations of Pagan Rome.  The purely supreme cast is more than likely the only thing keeping the film from being well and truly buried in a basement. Historical revelations indicate that the content of this film probably does in fact (to a degree) reflect the lunacy rampant at the time and yes that means....meaningless executions, wild paranoia, incest and of course the gratuitous sex


As I have said...it is graphic...though I dont know if I would call it vile and worthless...certainly all of this is true:

You have heard that this is a violent film. But who could have suspected how violent, and to what vile purpose, it really is? In this film, there are scenes depicting a man whose urinary tract is closed, and who has gallons of wine poured down his throat. His bursting stomach is punctured with a sword. There is a scene in which a man is emasculated, and his genitals thrown to dogs, who eagerly eat them on the screen. There are scenes of decapitation, evisceration, rape, bestiality, sadomasochism, necrophilia.

:) I, like many, give it a little more credit for trying but certainly the film is flawed to say the least.




Offline areich

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Re: Caligula DVD
« Reply #23 on: June 27, 2007, 03:12:05 am »
Well, it's not like there are no other films to watch, so I'll pass.
Andreas Reich

Offline Oblomov

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Re: Caligula DVD
« Reply #24 on: June 27, 2007, 04:59:28 am »
meantime, Caligula's denarii cost  what? 3-5 times more than Otho's ?, and  the latter one didnt even have  bronze coinage! Are they really that rare?

Ye olde supply and demand.  Specifically: demand.

Caligula is a famous emperor, and everybody “knows” that he was a twisted lunatic pervert.     :evil:

Everybody who passed a high school level world history class should recognize the name “Caligula” (but probably not Gaius).

Tell any random acquaintance that you own a coin struck under Caligula, and they will probably want to see it.  If you try to talk to that same person about your denarii of Septimius Severus or your antoniniani of Probus, and they will likely try to change the subject. At least, thats been my experience.   ;)

Lurid fame breeds broad interest. 

 

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