Author Topic: Help Identifying a coin I purchased in Baalbek Lebanon at Temple of Jupiter (Read 7433 times)

Joe T · « **on:** October 06, 2009, 10:01:27 pm »

Hello there, New to collecting these types of coins. I was sold a couple on a trip to Baalbek Lebanon at the site of the Roman Ruins there in 2008. The Temple of Jupiter is what I recall the large temple to be named.
The wording on the front reads: IMPCAESMIVI PHILIPPVSOVBOVS

From the research I have done it is very similar to: Saulcy 2
AE28 on the Wildwinds website at: http://www.wildwinds.com/coins/greece/syria/heliopolis/t.html

cars100 · « **Reply #1 on:** October 06, 2009, 10:26:52 pm »

Hi Joe;
Welcome to ancient collecting and this Forvm. Now for the bad news, it is a modern cast fake. It is a common practice to sell these at old historic sites. Sorry for your mis-fortune, but do not let it sour you on the hobby. Most people are honest, but you do need to keep your eyes open.
Regards,
Ray

Joe T · « **Reply #2 on:** October 06, 2009, 11:00:50 pm »

Thanks Ray,

How can you identify them as fakes? Is it because of where I purchased them? I can tell you that they feel authentic. They also from what I have gathered from the region (Syria) Philip I. on the one I submitted. I would like to learn how to differentiate a real from fake. Where would you suggest I start?

Joe

cars100 · « **Reply #3 on:** October 06, 2009, 11:12:00 pm »

Hi Joe;
Where you bought it is not the determining factor here. It has a cast 'look' to it. There are bubbles on the surface, the style is wrong and the patina has obviously been applied. I did not have to look it up to tell it was wrong. But don't take my word for it, as there are much better experts on this forvm who can weigh in on your coin. These guy's have many years of experience and bring the best advise possible.
Ray

areich · « **Reply #4 on:** October 07, 2009, 01:37:34 am »

Ray is right, it is very obviously a cast tourist fake.
There is no short-cut, you simply have to look at lots and lots of genuine coins, in pictures
but also in hand. It takes a while (for everybody) to even spot these 'very obvious' fakes.

This coin has the soft look, as Ray already said, that comes from casting. Unfortunately I can't find
a really sharp genuine example of the Baalbek temple so you can compare. Comparing a cast and a worn coin
will not make the difference as clear.

zeid · « **Reply #5 on:** October 07, 2009, 03:02:34 am »

this one is definetly a fake...

I bought a similar one 15 years back from a small shop in Baalbek

eventhough I knew from the begining that it was a touristic fake...

I bought it out of curiosity hoping that it was a (copy) from a real genuine one...

for the sake of doing some architectural and historical comparision...

though the Temple of Jupiter -the largest temple in the empire- and the temple of Bacchus both were amazing....

going back to the coin itself...

I remember the distribution of its orange Patina looked suspicious ...

the over all texture was too soft to be true with its amount of details ...

with no indication of wear and tear and years of stress ...and most important

its cross section or thickness was also a good indicator for me...

maybe I'll post a picture of it ....later

Regards...

mautza · « **Reply #6 on:** October 07, 2009, 08:39:19 am »

Hi Joe,

Buying an ancient coin from a tourist site is most likely wasting money, unless you buy it as a souvenir. Selling ancient coins is restricted in many countries in the Middle East and Europe, thus you will generally end up buying a tourist cast like this one.

Collecting ancient coins is a very rewarding hobby, but if you are new to it, there is a basic rule that has to be followed: always buy from trusted sellers! In time you will learn to tell the difference between a genuine ancient coin and a fake one, but there is a long way ahead of you.

At FORVM ANCIENT COINS we encourage people to start collecting ancient coins, and besides the lifetime guarantee that we offer for the coins purchased from us, you can also return them anytime for store credit. You will thus be able to upgrade you collection in time or even change your collecting theme if your interest change.

Take care,
Cosmin

zeid · « **Reply #7 on:** October 07, 2009, 12:01:52 pm »

Quote from: zeid on October 07, 2009, 03:02:34 am

I'll post a picture of it ....later

2 modern cast fake from Baalbek:

areich · « **Reply #8 on:** October 07, 2009, 12:14:55 pm »

These are far better casts, the second looks very good except for the glued-on sand.

zeid · « **Reply #9 on:** October 07, 2009, 12:21:11 pm »

I guess they are "good" copies from Genuine coins

areich · « **Reply #10 on:** October 07, 2009, 12:31:46 pm »

I think so, many of these are copies of copies.

dougsmit · « **Reply #11 on:** October 07, 2009, 04:50:22 pm »

Quote from: areich on October 07, 2009, 12:14:55 pm

These are far better casts, the second looks very good except for the glued-on sand.

The second coin was originally struck in silver so this is pretty obviously wrong on several counts.

Also, lets repeat a truth of coins: Items sold at sites have less a chance of being genuine than you have winning the lottery without buying a ticket. That is good since most places would be happy to arrest you if you were to actually buy a real coin at a site.

Joe T · « **Reply #12 on:** October 08, 2009, 04:22:08 am »

Thanks Ziad,

Some major differences in the coin I have and yours. I really appreciate your help. I'll try and get some pics up of my trip to baalbek last year...Although, I not sure much has changed since you were there 15 yrs ago.

Joe

areich · « **Reply #13 on:** October 08, 2009, 06:26:05 am »

Doug, I'm not saying it looks genuine but that it looks good.
I had one of these once with such a nice dark toning it looked almost like a bronze coin
with a black patina.

Joe, the difference is mainly due to the fact that your coin is a copy of a copy of a genuine coin (or a modern fake).
Much like copying a copy of a page from a book, the quality deteriorates with each 'generation'.

mwilson603 · « **Reply #14 on:** October 08, 2009, 07:16:11 am »

Zeid,

In some ways your fake one almost looks better than my real one!

regards

Mark

zeid · « **Reply #15 on:** October 08, 2009, 08:17:26 am »

Quote from: Joe T on October 08, 2009, 04:22:08 am

I'll try and get some pics up of my trip to baalbek last year...Although, I not sure much has changed since you were there 15 yrs ago.

Joe

Sure...Why Not ...Baalbek is a must see destination for all the fans of Roman civilization ...

The real Beatuy of Baalbek Temples that it hasn't changed that much since 2 millenia

Regards

Quote from: mwilson603 on October 08, 2009, 07:16:11 am

Zeid,

In some ways your fake one almost looks better than my real one!

Are you serious ?

No way man....

commodus · « **Reply #16 on:** October 09, 2009, 07:15:52 pm »

Quote from: mwilson603 on October 08, 2009, 07:16:11 am

Zeid,

In some ways your fake one almost looks better than my real one!

regards

Mark

In WHAT ways?
The fake looks HORRIBLE and your genuine coin is GORGEOUS!
Be glad.

mwilson603 · « **Reply #17 on:** October 09, 2009, 08:20:11 pm »

Ok Ok, I will take it back. I was just taken a little aback that the fake cast coin had such great detail. The feathers on the eagle, the beard and hair on Philip etc, all looked really good to me. But of course you are right that I am lucky to be the caretaker of the real tet, and thank you for helping me see sense.

regards

Mark

commodus · « **Reply #18 on:** October 09, 2009, 09:33:07 pm »

LOL!

You've got a coin with beautiful detail there. I am envious! Seriously.

mauseus · « **Reply #19 on:** October 30, 2009, 08:30:22 am »

Hi,

This Philip Heliopolis has just appeared on a dealer website and it looks to be from the same impression/die that created the coin at the start of the topic, albeit with a convincing encrustation/patination. So my question is "is this latest coin also fake?"

Your comments as always appreciated.

Regards,

Mauseus

zeid · « **Reply #20 on:** November 06, 2009, 04:28:22 pm »

It's hard to judge from this picture alone.

Do you have a higher resolution picture ?

mmm....well I am not sure ,let us see what others may say about it.

Edessa · « **Reply #21 on:** November 06, 2009, 10:10:40 pm »

Not to pick nits, but actually the Phillip the Arab Tets are occasionally of such base silver as to look bronze. See the following post:

https://www.forumancientcoins.com/board/index.php?topic=31884.msg204983#msg204983

Eugene

misterbeal · « **Reply #22 on:** November 17, 2009, 03:33:45 pm »

On a visit to Baalbek in 1970 I bought a Phillip the Arab Heliopolis from an Arab with a cigar box full of coins. He asked $60, but since customers were scarce -- I was the only Western within nearer than Beirut -- I got the coin for $3. The details are so sharp that, despite the patina and "feel," I can't help suspecting a fake. I'd post a picture, but I can figure out the drill.

areich · « **Reply #23 on:** November 17, 2009, 03:43:45 pm »

Certainly fake but no reason to be all

about it.
It's a souvenir, you should be

that you only paid $3.

misterbeal · « **Reply #24 on:** November 17, 2009, 04:45:17 pm »

Thanks, Areich, for confirming my strong suspicion. My coin looks eerily like the cast fake posted above by Zeid, except that the counterfeiter cooked a black patina on it. I'm not really

. I needed an interesting fake in my small collection of ancients.

News:

Author Topic: Help Identifying a coin I purchased in Baalbek Lebanon at Temple of Jupiter (Read 7433 times)

Joe T

Joe T

zeid

mautza

zeid

zeid

Joe T

zeid

zeid

misterbeal

misterbeal