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Author Topic: campgate conondrum  (Read 1589 times)

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gavignano

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campgate conondrum
« on: January 21, 2009, 10:16:16 pm »
Need help from fellow Forvm members. I've been doing research on Constantine I campgates. The Heracula coins are scarce, with all but one example I located for sale having the exergue MHTB (RIC VII 16). Fair enough.
When checking Wildwinds, I found a misattributed coin. It is listed as MHTB. Here is the photo. It sure looks like MHTA, which is an unrecorded officina, right? Its not a delta, right?
Dane's sheets also have MHT  :Greek_epsilon: and MHT  :Greek_Delta:, but no officina A.
I just picked up a MHTA. Don't have in hand but will post a photo.
So, did I just get a  rare unrecorded officinia for the scarce Heracula series? Anyone seen an MHTA?
Joe

Offline Steve Minnoch

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Re: campgate conondrum
« Reply #1 on: January 21, 2009, 10:55:13 pm »
From the exergue on it's own I would have said A... but it doesn't compare well with the 2 As in the main reverse inscription, does it?

Steve

gavignano

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Re: campgate conondrum
« Reply #2 on: January 22, 2009, 10:29:05 pm »
I agree - it doesn't compare well - but the T in the exergue is a bit ornate, so its a tough call - How about this one?

Offline Tiberiusjulius

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Re: campgate conondrum
« Reply #3 on: January 23, 2009, 03:18:09 pm »
I would say A,it seems like your coin has the feet of an A that a  :Greek_Delta: wouldn't have.

Offline Johnny

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Re: campgate conondrum
« Reply #4 on: January 23, 2009, 05:56:25 pm »
I agree with Steve,  an dsay it's  :Greek_Delta:

if it were A  ,  it would match the other ones in the legend


gavignano

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Re: campgate conondrum
« Reply #5 on: January 23, 2009, 08:27:37 pm »
Johnny - what about coin 2 - an A or a  :Greek_Delta:

Offline Steve Minnoch

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Re: campgate conondrum
« Reply #6 on: January 23, 2009, 08:40:27 pm »
I'd go with A on the second one.  I'm still on the fence with regards to the first.

Steve

Offline moonmoth

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Re: campgate conondrum
« Reply #7 on: January 24, 2009, 12:56:24 am »
I see that the first coin photo is from Wildwinds.  The serifs on that last character point downwards, which suggests it is an A.  Serifs on deltas tend to be sideways on the cross-piece, as on this coin, also from Wildwinds, also a Constantine from Heraclea:
"... A form of twisted symbolical bedsock ... the true purpose of which, as they realised at first glance, would never (alas) be revealed to mankind."

Offline Beast

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Re: campgate conondrum
« Reply #8 on: January 25, 2009, 10:28:21 pm »
I agree - it doesn't compare well - but the T in the exergue is a bit ornate, so its a tough call - How about this one?

Joe,

The officina mark looks a bit shoddily formed. If it's an A, it's inconsistent with the squarish A's style in the reverse legend, but sometimes the exergaul mark and the legend lettering styles don't match. Seems at times like the legend engraver and the exergual engraver were different people. It certainly doesn't look like a  :Greek_Delta:, however, I could easily see an argument made for officina 2 (B) with a partially filled die (or the die didn't come in contact since the flan is misshapen at that spot), since part of the letter seems a bit rounded on the right side. Here is a B from my collection, which is obviously from a different engraver as the style is very dissimilar.

--Beast

gavignano

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Re: campgate conondrum
« Reply #9 on: January 26, 2009, 10:44:59 pm »
Thanks "Beast"  :)
I guess the jury is still out if there is indeed an officinia A for MHT_  mintmark.
Your explanation is indeed plausible!
 As I paid under 15 USD for it, the purchase of my first Heracula Constantine campgate is still a bargain.

Offline dougsmit

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Re: campgate conondrum
« Reply #10 on: January 27, 2009, 08:04:46 am »
The pattern we are seeing here is that the mintmark was cut by someone with poor handwriting and not the same as the rest of the legend.  Note the H in the mintmark is closer to the A's in the rest of the legend than anything else.  My coin is listed in my catalog as B and strikes me as similar to the second coin shown.  Not having read anything above, I could have accepted the first coin as a delta (due to the catalog listing that as an option) but I don't see that as some sort of certain truth. 


 

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