Greek? Original? Imitation?

[Lech Stępniewski]

People sometimes write to me (to the Not in RIC website) asking for the identification of all sorts of coins. As if I know everything. But I don't.

So please help me identify this one.

Weight 8.98 g. Diameter 25.47 mm.

[Altamura]

It's a fake : https://www.forumancientcoins.com/fakes/displayimage.php?pid=1887

Regards

Altamura

[Lech Stępniewski]

Thanks, Altamura!

I was pretty sure it is an imitation but preferred to ask, because my correspondent who had this coin in hand introduced himself as a numismatist collaborating with the French museum.


***

Please, move this thread to fakes.

[Virgil H]

This may be a stupid comment, but my first thought when seeing the photo was a Celtic potin. Can you say why you think it is a fake?

Thanks,
Virgil

[dwarf]

I don't think that this is a fake - I (and every collector of Ancient coins) knows it.
Stylistically there is no resemblance to a genuine coin.
This "forgery for tourists" is known for decades

Regards
Klaus

[Altamura]

And to be a bit more specific:
- Celts didn't produce coins with the name of Philip II written on them,
- potin coins are smaller than 25 mm.

Regards

Altamura

[Din X]

And to be a bit more specific:
- Celts didn't produce coins with the name of Philip II written on them,
- potin coins are smaller than 25 mm.

Regards

Altamura

If I enter Celts and Philip II, there will be many so called Celtic imitations of the Philip II tetradrachms with Zeus on obverse and rider on horse on reverse and with correct or wrong written Philippoy.
So I think that some celtic tribes were minting Philip II imitations with the name of Philip written on them, some of these imitations do not have Philip written on them or a different legend.

[Din X]

And there are celtic imitation with same symbols and letters  as this fake

[Din X]

The other reverse and an authentic celtic tetradrachme with same symbols letters etc.

[Din X]

Both of this fakes here in thread and in fake reports look very similar so they could be casting twins.
The style does not look so bad so they could be cast fakes made by combining two reverses of Philip II Celtic imitaions but using wrong metal (Bronze instead of Silver).
The problem is not only that here 2 reverse dies were combined and that the metal is wrong I think that this 2 reverses are from different mints and times so this is a huge problem, too.
The reverse with branch shows on horse this cycle which looks like a wheel on the other authentic coin of this type and all of these fakes look very worn and soft.
If someone is cutting a die by hand the details are generally sharp and the fakes will show different centering etc.

[dwarf]

Sorry Din X
This is a blatant tourist fake - having worked in a renowned coin shop specialising in ancients I have seen literally dozends of these forgeries.
I appreciate your work - but in this case it was not necessary

Regards
Klaus

[Altamura]

... So I think that some celtic tribes were minting Philip II imitations with the name of Philip written on them, some of these imitations do not have Philip written on them or a different legend. ...

In some sense you are right. I had potin coins in mind, because Virgil H spoke of these, but didn't state that explicitely .
Potins have been made in Gaul, your examples are all from eastern Europe.

Regards

Altamura

[Mark Fox]

Dear Board,

For completeness on the topic of Celtic potins (as opposed to struck Alexandrian potins), they were also produced in Britain:

https://www.oxfordreference.com/view/10.1093/oi/authority.20110803100340206

https://www.academia.edu/5043356/The_Tale_of_the_Thurrock_Potins 

Some are also attributed to the Helvetii of modern-day Switzerland and were probably cast elsewhere too.  Collectively, I like to refer to the minters of the British and Gaulish (and other continental) potins as the Western Celts to separate them from their Eastern counterparts which do seem very different in many ways. 

So, yes, I can see why Virgil thought there was some similarity between the "Celtic" tetradrachm tourist fake posted by Lech and Celtic potin coinage in general, as both are cast.  But, in the case of the former, it is quite frankly painful to look at!

Hope some of this helps.

 
Best regards,

Mark Fox
Michigan   

[Virgil H]

Thank you all for the great discussion and explanations. I learned a lot, which is why I posted the question. Lately, I have been looking at mostly Gaul potins online and they seem, to me, to resemble many fake coins in terms of texture of the metal, etc. I wasn't saying the one pictured was real, but wondering why it was so quickly identified as a fake. And I got great answers.

Thanks again,
Virgil