Author Topic: Deceptive forgeries of common bronze coins (Read 2336 times)

Lech Stępniewski · « **on:** October 07, 2020, 03:06:14 pm »

Attention! See also the thread
https://www.forumancientcoins.com/board/index.php?topic=127039

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The first coin was just sold for GBP 460 on Bertolami Fine Art Web Auction 92 (lot 1520)

Seller's description:

"Diocletian (284-305), Follis, Antioch. AE (g 14,80; mm 28; h 12). IMP DIOCLETIANVS P F AVG, Laureate head r.; Rv. VICTORIA ROMANORVM, Emperor standing facing, head r., holding labarum and victory on globe; ANTΓ. RIC -. Extremely Rare, this rev. type usually found on Jovian bronze issues. Brown patina, good very fine."

Indeed, obverse has Dioletian's portrait similar to those minted in Carthago and reverse is from issue minted circa sixty years later in Antioch for Jovian. That's strange, isn't it?

Quick research shows that during past years obverses and reverses from the same dies appeared on the market. This time as a part of RIC VI CARTHAGO 31a and RIC VIII ANTIOCH 229. These types are quite common so one must take a second look to see that their style is not great.

Dominic T · « **Reply #1 on:** October 07, 2020, 03:35:11 pm »

Sadly the auction house was notified before the sale but for some reason they did not withdraw the coin.
DT

Joe Sermarini · « **Reply #2 on:** October 07, 2020, 03:44:08 pm »

Fake coin reports, please.

Dominic T · « **Reply #3 on:** October 07, 2020, 04:46:38 pm »

Done
DT

Joe Sermarini · « **Reply #4 on:** October 07, 2020, 07:34:08 pm »

Thanks DT.

Lech Stępniewski · « **Reply #5 on:** October 09, 2020, 07:33:44 am »

Another example.

From... Münzkabinett der Universität Göttingen (found by Janusz Kamiński)

Lech Stępniewski · « **Reply #6 on:** December 05, 2020, 06:52:13 pm »

Another member of this family of fakes.

Unfortunately, the picture is very small and fuzzy (I found it browsing Coryssa database https://www.coryssa.org/175626) but I am 90% sure that the reverse is from the same die.

However, the obverse is different and with different obverse legend! IMP C DIOCLETIANVS... (the first coin has IMP DICOLETIANVS...). At this time style is more Antiochian so the forgery is more deceptive...

Joe Sermarini · « **Reply #7 on:** December 05, 2020, 07:22:39 pm »

Quote from: Lech Stepniewski on October 09, 2020, 07:33:44 am

2. Very similar but not identical obverse and with different reverse. Could it be the model for the forger? From Freiburg, Seminar für Alte Geschichte der Universität, no. 07003

One should expect to find genuine coins similar to fakes. This coin should not have been posted on this thread. Including it here could be confusing, especially when you say "Two another examples." It is not another example.

Lech Stępniewski · « **Reply #8 on:** December 05, 2020, 08:04:50 pm »

Quote from: Joe Sermarini on December 05, 2020, 07:22:39 pm

This coin should not have been posted on this thread.

Corrected.

Heliodromus · « **Reply #9 on:** December 05, 2020, 08:54:17 pm »

This die was so great, that Carthage, Alexandria and Antioch all shared it !

Lech Stępniewski · « **Reply #10 on:** October 27, 2021, 02:21:29 pm »

Sad news. Bertolami just sold again this very example of Diocletian/Jovian forgery for EUR 180.

Joe Sermarini · « **Reply #11 on:** October 28, 2021, 09:11:21 am »

These are tricky fakes. I certainly could miss one. Hopefully, I will remember they exist when I get one in hand.

SC · « **Reply #12 on:** October 28, 2021, 06:03:08 pm »

They scare the bleep out of me. Especially the FEL KART.

SC

TenthGen · « **Reply #13 on:** November 03, 2021, 08:02:51 pm »

Yikes, these are pretty good. Do we know of any tells in-hand for these?

SC · « **Reply #14 on:** November 04, 2021, 07:41:44 am »

There's the die damage (?) on the bottom of Diocletian's head.

But the main thing for now if to compare for exact matches to these.

Of course that doesn't assist with types we haven't seen yet.

SC

Joe Sermarini · « **Reply #15 on:** November 04, 2021, 08:03:06 am »

The fake coin reports for identification of known types.

Buying from reputable dealers with a guarantee for the the unknown types.

Lech Stępniewski · « **Reply #16 on:** December 23, 2021, 09:46:29 am »

Another fake Jovian on sale

Lech Stępniewski · « **Reply #17 on:** December 23, 2021, 10:12:17 am »

Well, now every second Jovian of this type looks suspicious for me. But what do you think of this coin? Different dies but style somehow similar.
Two different pictures of the same coin.

SC · « **Reply #18 on:** December 23, 2021, 11:23:49 am »

Very close in style - perhaps one the counterfeiter copied.

It is much better in its details though - hair, ear, fibula, vexillum, clothing on the standing figure, etc.

SC

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Author Topic: Deceptive forgeries of common bronze coins (Read 2336 times)