Author Topic: Gordian III. antoninianus with legend error from Rome or Antiochia? (Read 1611 times)

Tibsi · « **on:** August 03, 2009, 06:16:28 am »

Hi!

The obverse legend's last 'G' is missing!
What was the mint? Rome or Antioch? And when?

Best,
Tibsi

*Alex · « **Reply #1 on:** August 03, 2009, 10:51:59 am »

Hmmm. I don't seem to be able to find your coin in either RIC or RSC. This looks like one for Curtis.

Alex.

Tibsi · « **Reply #2 on:** August 03, 2009, 10:58:42 am »

Yes, I didn't find it too! OK, I will post to Mr. Clay.

curtislclay · « **Reply #3 on:** August 03, 2009, 11:06:17 pm »

The coin doesn't fit easily anywhere, in my opinion.

The rev. type is known at both Rome, RIC 4, and Antioch, RIC 193, but the lettering and the portrait looking like a young Elagabalus don't fit either mint.

Rome seems excluded, so probably either a strange Antioch coin, with the final G of the obv. legend omitted for lack of space, or a decent ancient imitation in reasonably pure silver.

Tibsi · « **Reply #4 on:** August 04, 2009, 12:13:43 am »

Thanks for your opinion, Mr. Clay.
The coin's weight is 5.1 grams.

Tibsi · « **Reply #5 on:** August 04, 2009, 04:28:21 am »

What do you think about this?

Dr. Roger Bland about a similar anto:
"Possibly a sort of trial coin of the 'Antiochene' mint (meaning his 'anciliary mint, Viminacium"

http://www.wildwinds.com/coins/ric/gordian_III/RIC_0189a,Var.1.jpg

thimar11 · « **Reply #6 on:** August 04, 2009, 05:51:03 am »

an odd coin, indeed. As Curtis said, the coin is know for Rome and Antioch mints, but this one doesn't match the style. I have a coin in my collection from same reverse die, but with a completely different obverse style which seems closer to the Rome mint style. However, mine is classified under Antioch mint due to the reverse style, especially the lettering.

Thibaut

leseullunique · « **Reply #7 on:** August 04, 2009, 07:12:10 am »

I saw this coins for sale but I forgeted to bid...

I think it's an interesting local production like for the antoninainus I recently buy to Mr Jacquier (coin nr 481 of catalog 36) see picture below.

the bust and calligraphy are unusual for Antioch like for Rome

I know a few specimen of such local production and I personally have 1 denarius and 1 antoninian.

Regards

Here is
obv: IMP GORDIANVS PIVS F VAG
rev: [VI]CTORI AVG

Tibsi · « **Reply #8 on:** August 04, 2009, 08:09:13 am »

Hi,

Thanks for your answer.

My opinion your anto is an ancient imitation. The details are too rough-and-ready. But my coin's details are OK.

leseullunique · « **Reply #9 on:** August 04, 2009, 09:02:05 am »

I also think the mine is an imitation but Mr Jacquier wrote in his book "Antoninian. Lokale prägestätte." so I said the same

Here is an other imitation who looks good in bust but have "IMP GORDNVS PIVS FEL AVG" on obverse and realy strange "ROMAE AETERNAE" on reverse (it's a limes coin)

Best regards

Tibsi · « **Reply #10 on:** August 04, 2009, 09:05:29 am »

Yes, this is a very interesting legend's error! Grat!

Tibsi · « **Reply #11 on:** August 04, 2009, 09:07:02 am »

Please use 'V' instead 'U' on legend script!

leseullunique · « **Reply #12 on:** August 04, 2009, 09:13:48 am »

I don't understand why everybody use the V because it does mean U not V the name is Gordianus Pius not Gordianvs Pivs... but corrected

Tibsi · « **Reply #13 on:** August 04, 2009, 09:18:22 am »

The 'U' is not problem for me. Only for the numismatics traditions...
The main catalogs uses this formula.

Robert_Brenchley · « **Reply #14 on:** August 04, 2009, 03:23:29 pm »

It's because 'U' as a distinct letter hadn't been invented, and Roman inscriptions use 'V' for both letters.

leseullunique · « **Reply #15 on:** August 04, 2009, 04:48:53 pm »

Quote from: Robert_Brenchley on August 04, 2009, 03:23:29 pm

It's because 'U' as a distinct letter hadn't been invented, and Roman inscriptions use 'V' for both letters.

Dear Robert

Thanks for advice

curtislclay · « **Reply #16 on:** August 06, 2009, 10:39:02 am »

PAX AVGVSTI coin shown by Tibsi above: this coin was in the George His Collection, Gemini IV, 2008, lot 474, ex Schulten, 11 April 1988, lot 771.

The style is a little odd, but in the Gemini catalogue I followed Roger Bland in attributing this coin to Antioch.

Bland, no. 23/2 in his dissertation, records this identical specimen, plus one more from the same dies in the Creil Hoard.

Tibsi · « **Reply #17 on:** August 06, 2009, 10:57:55 am »

Mr. Roger Bland's opinion about the Gordianus III. PROVIDENTIA AVG coin:

"Thank you very much for sending an image of this interesting coin.
PROVIDENTIA AVG is a type that is found at both Rome (RIC 4) and Antioch
(RIC 193). The style of the coin, with its error in the obverse legend
(...AV), is certainly not that of Rome, but I do not think it matches
Antioch either. I made a study of the coinage of Gordian from Antioch
and this coin comes from a different reverse die from the 6 specimens I
know of. I think that it is most likely a contemporary copy."

Contemporary copy with 5.1 grams and high details on obverse?

curtislclay · « **Reply #18 on:** August 06, 2009, 11:30:41 am »

Tibsi,

If not a contemporary copy, then what?

An anomalous coin of Antioch or Rome? The first coin to be recognized of a previously unsuspected mint? Thimar's coin from the same reverse die but a different obverse die complicates the attribution.

So R. Bland's attribution seems prudent: "probably a contemporary copy, unless further material makes a revision of this attribution seem likely." In almost every coinage, there will be the occasional strange piece whose attribution must remain mysterious for the time being!

Tibsi · « **Reply #19 on:** August 06, 2009, 11:43:31 am »

I don't doubt Mr. Bland's opinion. His an expert and I'm an amateur collector.
But up this point I knew that the copies are underweight and with rough-and-ready development.
The man learns something always...

Tibsi · « **Reply #20 on:** August 07, 2009, 03:33:50 am »

Here is a combined picture about coins with same reverse legend!

Tibsi · « **Reply #21 on:** August 13, 2009, 11:18:15 am »

The coin was arrived yesterday. I cleaned it with distilled water soaking.
Here is the result. The weight is 5,17 grams and the metal is good silver.
I didn't get any information about other similar pieces...

News:

Author Topic: Gordian III. antoninianus with legend error from Rome or Antiochia? (Read 1611 times)