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Author Topic: Britannicus or Wishfull thinking?  (Read 3522 times)

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Offline Jerome Holderman

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Britannicus or Wishfull thinking?
« on: January 16, 2005, 09:43:44 am »
First person I thought of when I saw this portrait was Britannicus. Then I went to Wildwinds and the first coin on the Britannicus page seems like a dead ringer. Your thoughts? I know the coin is in very poor condition, but if it is Britannicus it is still rather exciting!!

First my coin.



And the wildwinds example.

Offline divo

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Re:Britannicus or Wishfull thinking?
« Reply #1 on: January 16, 2005, 11:10:59 am »
I can make out the A & R at 12:00 on your coins obv.
I vote yes a match. I think Britannicus in any condition is a
great find . :o

           divo

Offline Britannicus

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Re:Britannicus or Wishfull thinking?
« Reply #2 on: January 16, 2005, 11:42:24 am »
Yes, the SC on the reverse is clear, as well as the "turned-in-knees" posture of the figure. Well done indeed!
Actually, when I saw "Britannicus etc." under "Recent Posts" I assumed that it was me someone was complaining about!!  :D

Offline Jerome Holderman

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Re:Britannicus or Wishfull thinking?
« Reply #3 on: January 16, 2005, 11:50:20 am »
Cool!! This is quite an exciting Unclean find!!

Offline Varangian

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Re:Britannicus or Wishfull thinking?
« Reply #4 on: January 16, 2005, 12:17:12 pm »
Wow, you found that in uncleaneds!

Excellent find!  Congratulations!

Offline Britannicus

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Re:Britannicus or Wishfull thinking?
« Reply #5 on: January 16, 2005, 01:34:37 pm »
Oh, dear, I'd better start rummaging in Uncleaneds again!  ::)

Offline Jerome Holderman

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Re:Britannicus or Wishfull thinking?
« Reply #6 on: January 16, 2005, 05:17:12 pm »
after ten thousand or so ,you are bound to run into something cool.  ;D

Offline Salem Alshdaifat

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Re:Britannicus or Wishfull thinking?
« Reply #7 on: January 16, 2005, 06:47:47 pm »
congratulations, realy nice found ;D
Salem

Offline Jerome Holderman

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Re:Britannicus or Wishfull thinking?
« Reply #8 on: January 17, 2005, 08:42:12 pm »
So far the inforation I have attributes the coin as being struck under Titus at an "Unknown Provincial mint" . Is that still the opinion of modern numistmatists?

Massanutten

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Re:Britannicus or Wishfull thinking?
« Reply #9 on: January 17, 2005, 10:57:33 pm »
Jerome,
   I saw the Sear note re-attributing this coin to Titus and I can't help you one way or the other, but I can say that I am happy for you in a really fantastic find in an uncleaned lot. ($32,000 in fine condition).  
Best regards, Bob

Offline Steve Minnoch

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Re:Britannicus or Wishfull thinking?
« Reply #10 on: January 17, 2005, 11:02:34 pm »
I interpret that note in Sear as arguing AGAINST the attribution to Titus, and for placement along with the Claudian aes attributed to a mint in the Balkans.

Steve

Offline curtislclay

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Re:Britannicus or Wishfull thinking?
« Reply #11 on: January 17, 2005, 11:11:31 pm »
Yes, Sear is arguing as Steve says, and he is correct that the Britannicus bronzes were apparently struck in Thrace, 51-4 AD, along with those of Nero Caesar and Agrippina II.
Curtis Clay

Massanutten

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Re:Britannicus or Wishfull thinking?
« Reply #12 on: January 17, 2005, 11:16:29 pm »
Steve,
    Why?
Bob

Offline Steve Minnoch

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Re:Britannicus or Wishfull thinking?
« Reply #13 on: January 17, 2005, 11:23:54 pm »
1. His placement in the list
2. "However they appear to be an integral part of the curious 'Balkan' group of aes which includes issue in the name of Aggripina Junior and her son Nero."

Unless we are talking about different editions?

Steve

Massanutten

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Re:Britannicus or Wishfull thinking?
« Reply #14 on: January 17, 2005, 11:28:44 pm »
And I am some what confused.  The Titus reign is listed as AD 69 - 79 as Caesar and 79-81 as Augustus.  So who issued this coin?

Offline Steve Minnoch

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Re:Britannicus or Wishfull thinking?
« Reply #15 on: January 17, 2005, 11:32:33 pm »

Massanutten

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Re:Britannicus or Wishfull thinking?
« Reply #16 on: January 17, 2005, 11:42:34 pm »
 In the historical context, my mind is bogled!!
Bob

Offline Steve Minnoch

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Re:Britannicus or Wishfull thinking?
« Reply #17 on: January 17, 2005, 11:53:44 pm »
At the risk of overreaching myself I will try and clear it up:

The original and obvious attribution is to Claudius, his father.

However because much of the restoration coinage of Titus and Domitian has been linked to a mint probably located in Thrace. it was suggested that the Britannicus coins were part of this series - it is mentioned in the ancient sources that Titus was a childhood friend of Britannicus, so the theory was that Titus was honouring his old long-dead friend by adding him to the list of restored coins.  The Brittanicus type does not bear the "REST" that appears on the Flavian coins.

However there is also a group of bronzes (see above) that are also attributed to that Balkan mint, so it seems more logical that the Britannicus coins belong with these, and we are back with them being struck under Claudius.  There may be other relevant evidence that I am not aware of.

Steve

 

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