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Author Topic: Cicerokid's review of 2014  (Read 2019 times)

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Offline cicerokid

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Cicerokid's review of 2014
« on: December 14, 2014, 07:06:22 am »
My interests are in Hellenistic coins. Especially, but not exclusively in, the spread flan coinages called stephanephores and the New Style silver coinage of Athens in particular. This appears to be hardly in any other members collecting area.

I think the problem with the Hellenistic era is that it is not seen as pure Greek, tainted with the vile barbaric stain of the wildly megalomaniacal Macedonian usurpers Phillip and Alexander. It is not Magna Grecia: touched by the hand of Kimon.

Classicism is a gas; Hellenism is not.

MFB’s I cannot find stimulating especially in the  poor bronze examples which often are debated on as to whether they are, in fact, MFB’s! Other than listing them where does this lead? Now you can see why the Athenian New Style has such an attraction for me.

In the past year I have written some articles on academia.edu, two criticising the British Museum.

The first is based on a member’s very poor treatment by the BM which incensed me.  I had never visited the BM in a coin collecting capacity but I could envisage every word and manner as if that it had happened personally to me.
Luckily it happened to someone else or I doubt there would be an intact cabinet in the department. Snobs they are and snobs they remain.
Please read my article on academia.edu under my name John Nisbet,” The British Museum, UNESCO 1970, coin collectors and me”.

A later article based upon “Cicerokid’s review of 2013” is an acknowledgment, by the paraphrasing the title, of a book by H.B.Mattingly. Called “From coin collecting to numismatist”, it tells of my numismatic journey and how essentially the BM outlaws collectors. The BM no longer wishes to acknowledge its collecting roots and appears to despise them and has now changed its focus to where new specimens are no longer needed in its collection.
They, though, cannot resist the forbidden fruits of modern auctions. Maybe they look at such catalogues hidden within a copy of Playdude.

I did suggest to the BM‘s board of directors that they read my articles but I know they haven’t.

Two other articles on Academia.edu I have recently added came from reading F. de Callatay’s paper from 2011 on Academia.edu “More than it would seem: the use by the Romans of coinage in late Hellenistic Asia Minor (133-63 BC)".

The first one “Roma & Nike”: who deserves the crown?” was generated by the fact I could only find one article referring to what did Nike crowning Roma refer to. Sadly the complexities of absolute dating of events proved an obstacle and the dominance of other events may have obscured others.
Still worth a read!

The second article “Two ears of Corn: the key to who coined the O Demos imitation”, was brought about because de Callatay wanted to conflate yet another pair of coins into a single year; the famous “Star between two Crescents” with the controversial “Two ears of Corn”. I was struck by the similarity of style and particularly the cut of the letters on the reverses.

In a footnote in “More than it would seem….”, Prof. de Callatay wrote that the work of Jorg W. Muller on Athenian dark - age chronology had produced absolute dating of the intercalary New Styles and particularly one coin in the Rome-Pontic section.

An excited Dr Muller had promised in his paper of 1991 that he was actively preparing a New Style sequence based upon his work. He seemed to be still promising it in 1994 in another paper and not mentioned it in another paper in 1998.

Oxford, Warwick Universities and I can find no reference to the promised work. Maybe it “ran into the sand” but should it have been so authoritively noted in a footnote 20 years after it had been promised but failed to appear?

One good thing though is that it identified a new intercalary coin in the “Tyche, Staff & Cornucopia” issue that I was unaware of published in Coin Hoards 1 RNS 1975.


My contacts about things New Style have all but died away and I think that maybe I have trodden on ground they might have been preparing in a careful, thoughtful academic way and I have gone blundering in. Indeed I have essentially unpicked a still held cherished opinion using evidence gleaned purely from Thompson alone which I guess will not make me wildly popular, whereas I long for interest and criticism.

I am even trying to bully an author on the Roman civil wars into writing about the Mithradatic wars and using his military knowledge to try and come up with a tighter geographical chronology of simultaneous events.

I have, via PM, supplied a Finnish member with requested articles on New Styles and he is using them in his researches on an Alexander 111 coin hoard. I hope to hear of his endeavours soonish.

I can heartedly recommend two books both on Bactria with a lot of emphasis on the coins. Both are by Frank lee Holt called “Thundering Zeus” and “Lost world of the golden king-In search of ancient Afghanistan” , in which amongst the thanks for contributions and conversations the author numbers Lloyd Taylor. This would be the one-time recent Forum member. Like Rover 1.3 I miss greatly their contributions to the forum.



Now let’s bring on the coins!

My coins for 2014 started with a nice VF example of an Athens New Style tetradrachm with symbol “Gorgon Head”.
Readers of my last years posts in the Greek coins section on research and original work on the Rome-Pontic New Styles will know that this is seen as the first pro-Pontic symbol identifiable in the New Style coinage and is obverse die-linked to the “Drinking Pegasostype which is definitely pro-Pontic due to the exact copying of the symbol from the reverse of Royal Pontic coinage. My originality is that in the chronology of this period I have swapped the positions with another pair of die linked coins to give the symbol on the royal Pontic coinage precedence and a couple of years to percolate into the Athenian consciousness.

This then was a must have coin.

Coin #2 was an early period New Style tetradrachm. I love these large flan coins with monograms especially the very early types with monograms only and no controls. It has a symbol,”Trophy”, and Margaret Thompson stated that this was the largest New Style issue to date. I always seemed to find examples that had been badly mis-struck and/or worn to even put me off. When this one appeared with a nice clear reverse and an OK obverse then it had to be mine.
The interest is that both monograms are in the one field whilst the trophy occupies the other alone.
Except for two of the rarest very early New Styles I have a complete run of the early period New Style monogrammed tetradrachms so I do not anticipate any more new additions here.

Coin #3 is a dated Royal Bithynian tetradrachm of Nicomedes 1V.
This has an artistic fat-faced portrait and is probably meant to represent his ancestor Nicomedes 11, the reverse of Zeus Stratios is of his type and titular also. The reverse is not artistic unlike the obverse having poor proportions throughout: the beauty lies in the Bithynian-Pontic date of 88/7 BC. At this time Nicomedes had been replaced by Mithradates’ nominee Socrates Christo and was in Rome pleading his case to the senate. It is assumed that not all of Bithynia was in Mithradatic hands and that some cities held out and minted these really interesting rare coins.

Next is somewhat of a departure for me. It is not a tetradrachm but links directly into my interest area. Coin #4 is Athenian and Mithradatic linked.

New Style coinage dating to the magistracy of king Mithradates and Aristion are rare and beyond my pocket but the associated AE chalkous are relatively common.
These coins were definitely minted in Athens since the mint has been found with blanks of the same metallic composition. The tell-tale largish percentage of lead content is diagnostic and is thought to make the dies last longer by softening the blanks. The coins feature Athena in a Corinthian helmet on the obverse with a standard striding “Fulminating Zeusreverse with AOE ethnic but with the Pontic “Star between two Crescents” symbol of King Mithradates. All examples were made, sensibly, in the one Athenian mint and coins are found both in Athens and Piraeus. Those in Piraeus must pre-date the isolation of port and city by Sulla and most probably date to 87 BC only.
Examples appear more worn considering that after the siege they probably were not negotiable due to the symbol and this appearance is possibly due to the dies not producing a sharp impression on the lead enriched blanks and the large numbers of coins produced per obverse. The soft flan meterial caused them to be rapidly worn during their short lifespan.
It is assumed that silver for tetradrachms in Athens was scarce since a small gold New Style emission was also produced and that large numbers of bronze coinage was issued to fill the gap.

My next purchase was not even on my “hit list” because I had forgotten about them. Anything anywhere that resembles Athenian New Styles attracts my interest and when I saw the obverse “on the bay” I thought what a nice fake.  A really beautifully artistically rendered Athena but what outrageous gorgeous horse protomes and well rendered fake flat spots-great patina too!
The reverse had the usual owl on overturned amphora, two monograms, one apparently flat struck and incomplete, no ethnic or other controls. Nicely rendered though and also with a great patina. Sadly no weight given and a banner that proclaimed “Museum quality”.
OK I knew that this type reverse was reminiscent of the Sullan ethnic less New Style imitations but no controls? With that quality of art on the obverse also?
To my joy I found it to be a very rare Sulla 11 imitation. Now I had to question the seller without giving too much away. He eventually said he had indulged in the early 1970’s in coin speculation with NERC and was selling this and a couple of quality Roman Empire bronzes.
Googling NERC I found that the speculation boom turned to bust and the founder then co-founded Heritage auctions. The two Romans looked valuable but there are so many fakes that these got me worried.
Oh well, in for a penny in for a few (hundred) pounds and I was the only bidder and the Roman bronzes attracted no bidders.
Needless to say coin #5 is an absolutely genuine and very rare coin and is categorised as a Pseudo-Athenian New Style.
The Pseudo-Athenian coins especially type 1 and 11 need some reconciliation: they are the same e.g. ethnic-less and share monograms but are clearly stylistically distinct. Maybe the date given as 86-84BC needs reconsideration. Why not 87 BC, as soon as Sulla landed and took the treasuries of  the temples on his route to Athens for say, type 1 and the much, much rarer type 11 during or after the siege?.

Coin #6 is something I once thought I already had: a rare post-Sullan 2 magistrate type Athenian New Style tetradrachm. Previously my one example turned out to be an imitation that in turn fortuitously added to my research and original ideas on the Rome -Pontic times and chronology, but nonetheless it is not a true Athenian example.
So “Poppy Head between Grain Ears” has joined my collection and fills the post-Sullan gap nicely.
After the fall of Athens to Sulla it is assumed that New Style coinage was resumed immediately, if only for local usage. A chronology has been produced mainly on stylistic grounds and the odd rare hoard find where a single King Mithradates issue was accompanied by a number of thus presumed post-Sullan 2 magistrate issues.
Of these issues, around 10 have a handful of obverses, including “Poppy Head” and then examples all but completely “fall off the precipice” having maybe only 1 example or so. One type is only known from a drachm and another, the last ever New Style type discovered, as a single overstrike.
On the simplest level amphora month marks appear so indicating that the issues were still being produced at occasions during a single year. A newly found obverse die link between types seem to show that types did change most probably every year but there really are not enough of those examples to be absolutely sure.
All-the-same, assuming simple linear yearly issues from the end of the siege onwards takes us to an end of the New Style in the late 50’s BC, probably 53/2 BC and not with Mark Anthony’s sojourn there c 42 BC with the presumed concomitant compulsorily introduction of the denarii.

And finally, Plebs is the best programme on Roman culture I have ever seen. I think Mary Beard is the historical advisor but modestly hiding behind a pseudonym.

That’s all folks!

Cic

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Offline cicerokid

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Re: Cicerokid's review of 2014
« Reply #1 on: December 14, 2014, 07:35:13 am »
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Offline cicerokid

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Re: Cicerokid's review of 2014
« Reply #2 on: December 14, 2014, 07:36:57 am »
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Offline cicerokid

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Re: Cicerokid's review of 2014
« Reply #3 on: December 14, 2014, 07:43:56 am »
Nicomedes 1V
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Offline cicerokid

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Re: Cicerokid's review of 2014
« Reply #4 on: December 14, 2014, 07:46:13 am »
 AE2 Chalkos Star and 2 crescents 87/6 BC
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Offline cicerokid

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Re: Cicerokid's review of 2014
« Reply #5 on: December 14, 2014, 07:48:16 am »
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Offline cicerokid

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Re: Cicerokid's review of 2014
« Reply #6 on: December 14, 2014, 07:50:10 am »
Poppy Head Post Sulla
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Offline Carausius

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Re: Cicerokid's review of 2014
« Reply #7 on: December 14, 2014, 09:06:27 am »
Wonderful coins, Cic.  The gorgeon's head in particular is quite nice. Some of us share your interest. I purchased a reasonably-priced set of Thompson at auction a few years ago. I have chased a few New Styles at auction since then, but prices have nearly caught up to classical tet levels on the good quality coins and I seem consistently outbid. I would like to have a nice, early monogrammed example. I was well outbid on some Sulla era drachms in a recent auction. So you are not alone, but not all of us share your success level!  ;)

Offline cicerokid

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Re: Cicerokid's review of 2014
« Reply #8 on: December 15, 2014, 03:15:25 am »

Thanks for that Carausius,

I too have a complete copy of Thompson I purchased "from the bay" last week. It originally belonged to a French " Expert numismatist" A. Weil.

Much better than my badly copied version.

As luck would have it an example of the "Tyche, Staff & Cornucopia"  "N" marked amphora month has turned up for auction for sale in January.

Yes prices are rising, or being asked for, and for really poor uninteresting examples. I wonder how much my Thompson #1 is worth?


I do have a "hit list" of about 5 New Styles and that's about it. The Macedonian coins and other stephanaphores I would like are too expensive for me.


Without input from "NewStylophiles" I think I have reached the point where there are no new articles I can write on the subject.

So the end is nigh!

cheers,

Cic
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Offline n.igma

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Re: Cicerokid's review of 2014
« Reply #9 on: December 15, 2014, 03:46:02 am »
Wonderful coins accompanied by a great exposition of what has driven your collecting focus this last twelve months and more.  Great work!  I look forward to reading more of your endeavors and success in the next twelve months, for I am sure that  the end is far from nigh when it comes to the "new style"! ....  Another find, another addition, another question to be answered, another previously unknown problem to be solved!  :)

Thanks for this and my best best wishes to you for the coming festive season and the New Year ... happy and successful collecting in 2015!
All historical inquiry is contingent and provisional, and our own prejudices will in due course come under scrutiny by our successors.

Offline Andrew McCabe

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Re: Cicerokid's review of 2014
« Reply #10 on: December 15, 2014, 04:21:37 pm »
Great thread and lovely coins!

Below are some of my better acquisitions for 2014, a very tasty group of coins to be able to show at year end. I especially like the Fabia denarius with a stuck boar on reverse, the Caius and Lucius denarius, and the prow bronze of Julius Caesar from Lampsacus in 45 BC issued by Lucretius.

Offline Carausius

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Re: Cicerokid's review of 2014
« Reply #11 on: December 15, 2014, 04:39:20 pm »
Andrew: Is that a gold Tribute Penny? Very rare in such fine style!!  ;D ;D

Offline Andrew McCabe

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Re: Cicerokid's review of 2014
« Reply #12 on: December 15, 2014, 04:42:37 pm »
Quote from: Carausius on December 15, 2014, 04:39:20 pm
Andrew: Is that a gold Tribute Penny? Very rare in such fine style!!  ;D ;D

Yes! A gold aureus of Tiberius, the Livia seated type commonly called the Tribute Penny, although perhaps the aureus would be better known as a Tribute Pound. Slightly unusual style, but genuine. Authenticated in the pirate manner for testing gold coins, between the teeth. Tasted kinda sugary though.

Offline Molinari

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Re: Cicerokid's review of 2014
« Reply #13 on: December 15, 2014, 09:28:43 pm »

MFB’s I cannot find stimulating especially in the  poor bronze examples which often are debated on as to whether they are, in fact, MFB’s! Other than listing them where does this lead?


I won't hold it against you.  But studying an iconography, especially the MFB, can lead to a great many interesting things:

Tracing its origins and surrounding mythology can tell us why the image was so appealing to so many people over thousands of years.  It also teaches us about how such cultural traditions migrate.

Examining its distribution can tell us just how important the figure was and to whom, and how it was employed, especially when it comes to coinage.   For instance, why do mercenaries love the image so much?  Why does Rome's first coin have a MFB and why is that important?

Inquiring into the question of identity can solve a question that has pestered numismatists for hundreds of years. Why is the figure so widespread yet scholars can't seem to agree on who it is?  I think they will soon :)

There are many other things not listed that can be learned by obsessing about the man-faced bull.  Unfortunately, I can't post some of the conclusions on Forvm just yet, because the book isn't published.  But only half the book is a catalog, the rest is an examination of origins and identity which will appeal to a wide audience (at least we hope).

Offline Meepzorp

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Re: Cicerokid's review of 2014
« Reply #14 on: December 16, 2014, 06:08:03 am »

MFB’s I cannot find stimulating especially in the  poor bronze examples which often are debated on as to whether they are, in fact, MFB’s! Other than listing them where does this lead?


I won't hold it against you.  But studying an iconography, especially the MFB, can lead to a great many interesting things:

Tracing its origins and surrounding mythology can tell us why the image was so appealing to so many people over thousands of years.  It also teaches us about how such cultural traditions migrate.

Examining its distribution can tell us just how important the figure was and to whom, and how it was employed, especially when it comes to coinage.   For instance, why do mercenaries love the image so much?  Why does Rome's first coin have a MFB and why is that important?

Inquiring into the question of identity can solve a question that has pestered numismatists for hundreds of years. Why is the figure so widespread yet scholars can't seem to agree on who it is?  I think they will soon :)

There are many other things not listed that can be learned by obsessing about the man-faced bull.  Unfortunately, I can't post some of the conclusions on Forvm just yet, because the book isn't published.  But only half the book is a catalog, the rest is an examination of origins and identity which will appeal to a wide audience (at least we hope).

Hi cicerokid,

My Neapolitan ancestors are probably spinning in their graves right now. My ancestors came from the Campania region of Italy. And they probably used MFBs on their coinage more so than any other region of the ancient world. Achelous was a primary deity for them. I find those coins fascinating, along with the Taras "guy riding on dolphin" coins. The fact that many representations of Satan are based on Achelous (albeit a red, upright version of Achelolus) makes him all the more interesting. :evil:

You have angered the gods, especially Achelous. You will pay a terrible price for this. One day, Achelous may pay a visit to your home. He will stand on your front porch, squat, and lift his tail. And he will leave you a nice "present", one with a wonderful aroma and a nice brown, chewy texture that will  melt in your mouth.;) ;D

(You know I'm just kidding, right?)

Meepzorp

Offline n.igma

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Re: Cicerokid's review of 2014
« Reply #15 on: December 20, 2014, 10:06:39 pm »
I can heartedly recommend two books both on Bactria with a lot of emphasis on the coins. Both are by Frank lee Holt called “Thundering Zeus” and “Lost world of the golden king-In search of ancient Afghanistan” , in which amongst the thanks for contributions and conversations the author numbers Lloyd Taylor. This would be the one-time recent Forum member.

Thanks - soon to be on my desk!

His notes on the books: 
Lost World of the Golden King - A Must Read Book - https://www.forumancientcoins.com/board/index.php?topic=83611.0  Unfortunately the link to the coin noted in thread as being in the book is broken or dead.
and
Books on Bactria Coins https://www.forumancientcoins.com/board/index.php?topic=82277.0

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Offline Pekka K

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Re: Cicerokid's review of 2014
« Reply #16 on: December 21, 2014, 02:56:24 am »

New (2013) HGC vol 12 deals Coins of Baktria and Ancient India.

Pekka K


 

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