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Author Topic: Nero DECVRSIO - contorniate or not  (Read 2886 times)

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dolcinus

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Nero DECVRSIO - contorniate or not
« on: September 24, 2007, 05:14:18 am »
Hi dear friends
what do you think about this holed Nero sestertius
It's a contorniate or just only worn edges?
Thank you for all

Offline *Alex

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Re: Nero DECVRSIO - contorniate or not
« Reply #1 on: September 24, 2007, 06:13:08 am »
Hi Dolcinus,

I do not think your coin is a contorniate as those had their edges hammered up as shown on the example below.
Although this medallion example was made specifically as a contorniate, early imperial sestertii were often converted by the hammering up of their edges but not by wearing them away.

The 4th Century Contorniate below, showing a charioteer, is made from brass with inlays in silver and copper.
It is in the Rheinisches Landesmuseum, Trier.

Alex.



Offline areich

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Re: Nero DECVRSIO - contorniate or not
« Reply #2 on: September 24, 2007, 06:18:19 am »
This is ancient? It looks so cartoonish.
Andreas Reich

Offline *Alex

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Re: Nero DECVRSIO - contorniate or not
« Reply #3 on: September 24, 2007, 06:24:33 am »
This is ancient? It looks so cartoonish.

I'm afraid so. It is a genuine Ancient Roman cartoon.  ;D

Alex.

Offline areich

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Re: Nero DECVRSIO - contorniate or not
« Reply #4 on: September 24, 2007, 06:31:37 am »
The horse on the right is not happy to be on that thing but it was
young and needed the hay.  :-[
Andreas Reich

Offline Diederik

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Re: Nero DECVRSIO - contorniate or not
« Reply #5 on: September 24, 2007, 10:18:58 am »
The charioteer has just his chest X-rayed, but I think it is a wonderful piece!
The sestertius is not bad either, despite the hole.


Frans

Offline curtislclay

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Re: Nero DECVRSIO - contorniate or not
« Reply #6 on: September 24, 2007, 10:29:05 am »
The Trier piece is one of a very small class of ENGRAVED and INLAID contorniates.

The normal contorniate is DIE STRUCK, has both a raised edge and an incised groove inside the edge, and often has a countermark engraved in the field.
Curtis Clay

Offline GMoneti

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Re: Nero DECVRSIO - contorniate or not
« Reply #7 on: September 24, 2007, 01:44:00 pm »
I suppose I am ignorant on the subject, but what was the purpose of these contorniates?  Why have the raised edges, incised grooves, countermark and/or inlay? From aesthetic point of view a well made medallion looks much better, though that's just my opinion.
Georgi

Offline curtislclay

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Re: Nero DECVRSIO - contorniate or not
« Reply #8 on: September 24, 2007, 03:08:13 pm »
They were probably produced each December for use as New Year's gifts, continuing the earlier imperial tradition of producing both bronze medallions and ordinary copper asses at the same time of year for the same purpose.  See the Purpose of Medallions thread in Classical Numismatics.

Ordinary 1st-3rd cent. bronze coins with hammered-up edges were apparently also used as New Year's gifts, perhaps especially in the late third century and the first half of the fourth century, when the mints were producing very few bronze medallions and no larger bronze coins for circulation.

This custom influenced the design of the contorniates in two ways: their raised rim and incised groove imitated the hammered-up edges of those bronzes, and their types frequently copied old bronze coins, e.g. obverses of Augustus, Nero, Vespasian, Trajan, and corresponding reverses too, sometimes even taking over the letters S C of the prototypes.

The countermarks on contorniates, and many of the types too, apart from those copied from old coins, had to do with chariot races and other entertainments in the Circus.  I proposed a possible reason for this Circus connection in my unpublished paper presented at the 1986 International Numismatic Congress in London: the New Year's medallions and asses, and later the contorniates, may have been distributed at circus games held in honor of Sol on 25 Dec. each year.
Curtis Clay

Offline GMoneti

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Re: Nero DECVRSIO - contorniate or not
« Reply #9 on: September 25, 2007, 01:25:27 am »
Thank you for the detailed info, Curtis.  From your explanation I get it that contorniates were sort of "budget medallions", so to speak.  The ones you've posted of Nero and Trajan do seem out of their time stylistically.  Do we know when these two specific specimens were struck?


Georgi

Offline curtislclay

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Re: Nero DECVRSIO - contorniate or not
« Reply #10 on: September 25, 2007, 03:35:13 am »
The Trajan is early in the series, c. 360 AD, the Nero probably a couple of decades later.
Curtis Clay

Offline ROMA

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Re: Nero DECVRSIO - contorniate or not
« Reply #11 on: September 25, 2007, 05:09:42 am »
Some of these produced during the time of Trajan and Hadrian that I think are very interesting...

Very interesting Medallion frame during reign of Hadrian

Antinoos

Orichalcum contorniate

Also neat, CONTORNIATE, In the name of Divus Trajan. Circa late 4th century AD

Adversus solem ne loquitor

Offline Robert_Brenchley

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Re: Nero DECVRSIO - contorniate or not
« Reply #12 on: September 26, 2007, 02:56:15 pm »
Interesting that they should have struck a Divus Trajan that late!
Robert Brenchley

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Offline moonmoth

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Re: Nero DECVRSIO - contorniate or not
« Reply #13 on: September 26, 2007, 04:04:09 pm »
Going back to the first coin, I think the shape of the hole is interesting and unusual.  Perhaps it was made for a thin band of metal to be looped through it.
"... A form of twisted symbolical bedsock ... the true purpose of which, as they realised at first glance, would never (alas) be revealed to mankind."

Offline curtislclay

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Re: Nero DECVRSIO - contorniate or not
« Reply #14 on: September 26, 2007, 04:23:52 pm »
It was Trajan who first began striking medallions omitting SC, and he may also have been the emperor who began issuing New Year's asses and began distributing them at the 25 Dec. circus games, which he himself may have instituted!

So there was excellent reason to commemorate him, whether as Divus or living emperor, on contorniates struck for the same purpose and distributed at the same games two hundred and fifty years later!
Curtis Clay

basemetal

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Re: Nero DECVRSIO - contorniate or not
« Reply #15 on: September 26, 2007, 07:19:38 pm »
This thread prompts me to ask about this item.  It purports to be an electrotype from the 1800's. 
Sadly, with this item I cannot seem to copy the image and so must list the site for which I apologize in advance to the moderators. 
I know what an electrotype is, but I'm curious about any discussion.  If anyone can post the image, I'd much appreciate it. 
Here:
[BROKEN LINK REMOVED]
Thanks,
Bruce
Basemetal

Offline curtislclay

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Re: Nero DECVRSIO - contorniate or not
« Reply #16 on: September 26, 2007, 08:15:10 pm »
That is a reproduction of a proper bronze medallion of Trajan that is in the Paris collection, Gnecchi pl. 38.1, Cohen 3 with illustration.

It is a "framed" medallion with an extra ring of metal around the edge.  The rev. of the original is ADVENTVS AVG p q r optimo principi' target='_blank'>S P Q R OPTIMO PRINCIPI, Trajan on horseback r., led by Felicitas, followed by three soldiers.
Curtis Clay

Offline *Alex

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Re: Nero DECVRSIO - contorniate or not
« Reply #17 on: September 26, 2007, 09:52:57 pm »
Sadly, with this item I cannot seem to copy the image and so must list the site for which I apologize in advance to the moderators. 
I know what an electrotype is, but I'm curious about any discussion.  If anyone can post the image, I'd much appreciate it. 

Here it is Bruce.

Alex.


Basemetalatwork

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Re: Nero DECVRSIO - contorniate or not
« Reply #18 on: September 27, 2007, 08:21:28 am »
Thanks both Alex and Mr. Clay!
Bruce

 

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