FORVM`s Classical Numismatics Discussion Board
-
I'm having a real bad time with this coin. The reverse has "CLEMENTIA TEMP" exergue XXI with H above. I can't find any listings with a H above the exergue. If it is Numverian then the obverse should be "IMP NVMERIANVS PF AVG" but I just can't see that on the obverse.
Here is a pic of the obverse but the reverse just won't come out well enough to post.
-
I read PROBUS on the obverse... I'm going to look for a more complete ID...
Federico
PS
It could be:
Silvered antoninianus, RIC 921, Antioch mint;
obverse IMP C M AVR PROBVS AVG, radiate, draped and cuirassed bust right;
reverse CLEMENTIA TEMP, Emperor standing right receiving globe from Jupiter standing left holding scepter, H in center, XXI in ex.
Look in Forvm catalog for similar specimens under Probus!
-
Thanks Federico, That helps alot
-
Fedirico is close but not quite correct. It is either RIC 920 or RIC 922. The Obverse legend here reads "IMP C M AVR PROBVS P F AVG". In order to determine whether it is 920 or 922 depends on the scene on the reverse, not just the legend in this case.
RIC 920 is "Emperor standing right, holding sceptre, receiving globe from Jupiter standing left, holding sceptre" as in the example from a different officina (E dot) from my gallery shown below
(https://www.forumancientcoins.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10618/RI%20132dv%20img.jpg)
RIC 922 is "Emperor standing right, holding sceptre, receiving Victory from Jupiter standing left, holding sceptre" as in the example from a different officina (E dot) from my gallery shown below
(https://www.forumancientcoins.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10618/RI%20132x%20img.jpg)
Regards,
Martin
-
For a plain and perfectly legible obverse legend, Lazarus and I did quite a mass, isn't it?! ::)
Thank you Martin!
Federico
-
There's a very simple reason for this: We're only human ;).
Rupert
-
But the reverse doesn't have an (E dot) but an (H).
-
I think I have a decent photo of the reverse.
-
Oh, that one should be the "number" of the workshop, or officina, in the mint. In eastern mints they used: Alpha, Beta, Gama, Delta, Epsilon and, I suppose, Eta (how do you write it in English?), that is a letter almost identical to H but pronounced as a "large" E (well, as a large Italian E ;))... (In western mint: Prima (P), Secunda (S), Tertia (T), etc. with Latin letters)
Federico
-
I'm confused!!!! So if the (H) is really an (E) then what is the (E) on maridvnvm's coins? What mint is mine from?
-
I'm sorry: I did not explain very well :(
The mint is always Antioch, but I was just saying that, if I'm right, the workshops (different production units inside the same mint) were usually:
A
B
:Greek_Gamma:
:Greek_Delta:
:Greek_epsilon:
H
But I'd like if someone else confirmed this, because I'm not very familiar with late Roman bronzes and I'm not sure if this is the real order or if there were other letters (in particular I'm not sure about H... is there a Zeta officina before, as in the Greek alphabet?)...
Federico
PS
My other comments were about the fact that the letter was a Greek "Eta" (written "H") and not a Latin or English, as you prefer, "H", even if these two different letters are written in the same way...
-
Federico has exaplined the Officina/Workshops perfectly. They are identified by the Greek letters in this acse. RIC bundles all these coins into the same RIC Id. In fact there were nine officina working in Antioch during this period using A, B, :Greek_Gamma:, :Greek_Delta:, :Greek_epsilon:, :Greek_Stigma:, Z, H, and :Greek_epsilon::Greek_Delta:. The :Greek_epsilon::Greek_Delta: is used in place of Theta, being the initial letter of Thantos, god of Death, considered to be unlucky. I have included an example from this officina but RIC 925.
(https://www.forumancientcoins.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10618/RI%20132ib%20img.jpg)
The XXI here is considered to be the value mark being either 21 or 20:1 is unclear. Antioch also used KA as the where K=20 as in the following example if RIC 920.
(https://www.forumancientcoins.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10618/RI%20132ae%20img.jpg)
In other words you can generally ignore the officina and value mark in order to get the RIC Id. for Probus, which is generally based on the Obverse Legend, Reverse Legend and Reverse Devices. RIC then lists the known busts, emissions/issues and officina. RIC does a fairly poor job of completeing the busts, issues and officina and examples regularly turn up that are not covered inr RIC. All of which adds to my fun in collecting Probus!
Regards,
Martin
-
Thanks everyone for the help
Ancient and Medieval Coin Identification Help => Topic started by: Lazarus on May 07, 2005, 12:37:26 pm