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Author Topic: International Shipping of Coin???  (Read 611 times)

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Offline Robert D3

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International Shipping of Coin???
« on: March 13, 2023, 02:08:47 pm »
Hello Everyone,

I am new to the board here but I've been collecting Ancient for about 15 years or so. I recently made a purchase of a Gold Celtic Stater from a European dealer (France) on Vcoins.com and received an email about having to pay customs on the item. I do not know the first thing about going through this process as most of my purchases have been in the US where I am located. Does anyone have any helpful info for a newbie to the international shipping scene?

Robert

Offline Curtis JJ

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Re: International Shipping of Coin???
« Reply #1 on: March 13, 2023, 03:11:15 pm »
Hi Robert,

Yes, I've had exactly this happen a few times. In every case I did receive the coin after paying. Clarification questions: Is the coin already shipped, and has it been stopped by Customs? Who sent you the email: the US Customs, the shipping agent (e.g., DHL, FedEx), the vendor?

(I forget which imports are subject, whether it's over a certain price threshold (maybe >2k or 3k?), but for me it was always gold coins, so it may be a gold import duty?)

In my experience, it's been the shipping agent who contacted me about paying the import duties, usually while the coins were being held by the US Customs. It was always straightforward: they say how much to pay (I think usually like 0.5% or 1%, maybe even less); I pay with credit card; they release it.

The only complication I've had were occasions when the seller didn't provide the proper paperwork to indicate the coins were either exempt from import restrictions or satisfied the legal requirements.

Import restrictions on "cultural property" & antiquities are a different thing from taxes/duties. That probably isn't an issue for you, or they would've said so in the same message (or sent an additional one).

Even if that's an issue as well, it should still turn out OK: I've virtually always been able to get my coins through by asking the dealer for help. (Maybe half a dozen times in the past couple years because the seller forgot to include the paperwork, and many, many more times between the 1990s & 2010s. Only once did Customs fail to release the coins, but that was because the seller -- amazingly -- admitted the coins were illegal! So, in that case, I actually agreed with the forfeiture and didn't contest it at all, and the seller gave a refund. Well, I don't want to scare anyone, but there was also a theft, maybe in the 00s, but it was a very specific situation.)
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Offline Joe Sermarini

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Re: International Shipping of Coin???
« Reply #2 on: March 14, 2023, 07:27:51 am »
Antiques (and thus ancient coins) are exempt from customs duties. If you have the right paperwork and description there are no customs duties.
Joseph Sermarini
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Offline Meepzorp

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Re: International Shipping of Coin???
« Reply #3 on: March 14, 2023, 08:16:09 am »
Hi Joe,

 ???

This is a shock to me.

Whenever I receive international packages via mail, I never had to pay a customs tax.

However, when the overseas dealer uses a private courier (DHL, FedEx, etc.), I sometimes must pay a customs tax. This doesn't happen with low value items. I only have to pay a customs tax for high value items. I have had to pay a customs tax maybe 2 or 3 times in my entire life (in 25 years of collecting ancient coins).

When this happens, I usually receive a phone call from the shipping agent/private courier (DHL, FedEx, etc.). I have never been contacted by customs.

The amount isn't much. It is always a small fee, even for high value items. I pay via credit card, and the coins are released.

My experiences confirm what Curtis JJ wrote.

Meepzorp

Offline Jay GT4

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Re: International Shipping of Coin???
« Reply #4 on: March 14, 2023, 08:50:31 am »
Meep you may be confusing customs and brokerage fees.  Companies like DHL and FedEx will charge these fees to process the shipment through customs.  They may also collect any sales tax that is applicable (Canada).

Offline Curtis JJ

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Re: International Shipping of Coin???
« Reply #5 on: March 14, 2023, 10:10:18 am »
Here is what my "Import Duty" communications/payments have always looked like, attached below. Mine were always described in those terms ("IMPORT DUTY/TAX") in my communications/receipts. I didn't verify that they were using the term correctly or that the items were being properly taxed.

Perhaps antiquities are exempt but not gold? In that case gold antiquities may have to be paid? (My recollection was that I was only charged on the gold/electrum coins.) Each time it's happened to me, it was for ancient Greek gold or electrum coins, as part of an order over a certain value (high value for me).

This one is a shipment from Germany (Gorny & Mosch) to USA in 2019. I've had others (also to USA) from other countries within the past 5 years. Most recent may have been a couple years ago. I think one was also FedEx, but possible they were all DHL.
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Offline Joe Sermarini

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Re: International Shipping of Coin???
« Reply #6 on: March 14, 2023, 11:49:07 am »
All antiques, even gold, are exempt from customs duties if the sender describes them properly.
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Offline Curtis JJ

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Re: International Shipping of Coin???
« Reply #7 on: March 14, 2023, 12:30:38 pm »
Good to know, thanks. This must happen when they don't indicate the coins are old, so they get erroneously treated as bullion. I don't have the Customs Declaration associated with the message above (or misfiled it), but I do notice that the Declarations from two others only described them as "collectible coins" without mention of age.

Another reason to be unhappy about sellers failing to properly fill out the paperwork. Looking at the language of the regulations, this also explains the phrase that I sometimes see, "coins over 100 years old."
“Collect the collectors…” John W Adams’ advice to J Orosz (Asylum 38, 2: p51)

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Offline Jay GT4

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Re: International Shipping of Coin???
« Reply #8 on: March 14, 2023, 08:55:26 pm »
They probably don't want to be too descriptive or else they get "lost"

Offline Meepzorp

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Re: International Shipping of Coin???
« Reply #9 on: March 15, 2023, 02:54:46 am »
Hi folks,

Regarding the DHL photos that CJJ posted, I've received a few of those (2 or 3 times).

Tying that in with what Jay wrote, is that a customs tax, or is it a brokerage fee that the private courier uses to process the shipment through customs?

Meepzorp

Offline Meepzorp

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Re: International Shipping of Coin???
« Reply #10 on: March 15, 2023, 03:00:08 am »
Quote from: Curtis JJ on March 14, 2023, 12:30:38 pm
Looking at the language of the regulations, this also explains the phrase that I sometimes see, "coins over 100 years old."

Hi CJJ,

I don't see that phrase written on the documentation for the package only "sometimes". I see it a lot, probably about 80-90% of the time I receive a package from overseas. There is one dealer in Italy who uses that phrase 100% of the time. I receive many packages from him, probably more than any other coin dealer. Many times, he will write, "Coins over 100 years old, for study purposes".

Meepzorp

Offline Meepzorp

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Re: International Shipping of Coin???
« Reply #11 on: March 15, 2023, 03:12:38 am »
They probably don't want to be too descriptive or else they get "lost"

Hi Jay,

By "lost", I assume that you imply theft. Yes, that is a good reason to not be too descriptive.

But there is another reason why many overseas coin dealers don't want to be too descriptive, especially the ones in Italy, where there are ridiculous export restrictions. Many of them probably deliberately aren't too descriptive because they are concerned about the package being seized. Consequently, they deliberately use vague descriptions.

I am currently waiting for a shipment from Italy for a few months. I paid for these coins back in November/December 2022. That was almost 4 months ago. The dealer is still waiting for an export license from the Italian government. He has no idea when he will receive permission to ship the coins to me. He can't even provide a time frame. In my email communications with him in the recent past, I suggested that he can move his business to San Marino. But he replied and informed me that he couldn't do that for various reasons.

Meepzorp

 

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