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Author Topic: Were coins ever placed on unusual objects?  (Read 4990 times)

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basemetal

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Were coins ever placed on unusual objects?
« on: September 05, 2006, 08:56:05 pm »
We have all seen coins used as jewelry.  Some with holes, others with settings.
Were coins ever used on shields, or helmets?  I've never seen an example.  It seems a natural.
A coin of the mighty Trajan on your shield, immense protection, or on your helmet, what barbarian scum would  dare strike it?
Not really of course, but as a talisman for protection in battle perhaps.  I know few examples of helmets, or shields survive, but the generalization is what I mean. 
The talismatic value of images of Christ or the cross to later Christians.

Offline Scotvs Capitis

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Re: Were coins ever placed on unusual objects?
« Reply #1 on: September 05, 2006, 09:53:15 pm »
As a talisman I would imagine coins being placed in all sorts of odd locations. While not ancient, Scotish brides like my mother and grandmother placed a sixpence in their shoe to insure a long and happy marriage. It worked for niether of them :(, but surely there are ancient practices like it.

With all the holed coins in uncleaned lots, it was obviously not uncommon at all to use even a tiny and rather low-value bronze as some sort of ornament or symbol. I often wonder who, why and whatnot about a holed coin.

I look forward too to more educated and factual replies   :)
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Offline David Atherton

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Re: Were coins ever placed on unusual objects?
« Reply #2 on: September 05, 2006, 11:52:26 pm »
Coins were sometimes placed under the tongue in corpses to pay Charon, the ferryman, for the crossing from the land of the living to the land of the dead across the river Styx.

Offline areich

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Re: Were coins ever placed on unusual objects?
« Reply #3 on: September 06, 2006, 01:26:11 am »
Was any particular denomination used for that, I mean was there a set price?
Andreas Reich

Offline Cleisthenes

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Re: Were coins ever placed on unusual objects?
« Reply #4 on: September 06, 2006, 05:35:16 am »
This strays a bit off topic . . . but . . . in Egypt, Bedouin women make beautiful veils out of coins.

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Retrospectator

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Re: Were coins ever placed on unusual objects?
« Reply #5 on: September 06, 2006, 06:08:51 am »
I heard somewhere (can't remember where) that a coin would be placed under the mast of a new Roman ship for good luck.

Bill Perry

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Re: Were coins ever placed on unusual objects?
« Reply #6 on: September 06, 2006, 01:56:04 pm »
The previous discussion on foundation deposits covers some of this if your interested

https://www.forumancientcoins.com/board/index.php?topic=25430.msg167101#msg167101

basemetal

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Re: Were coins ever placed on unusual objects?
« Reply #7 on: September 06, 2006, 08:27:04 pm »
I suspect the using of low-denomination single coins as jewelry had part of its origins in that the die engraver could do a better job of making an ornament (coin) than was possible by the general populace.
You see the "roman" brass rings for sale and though I love them, they can be rather crude.
A coin is round and is a natural for conversion into a piece of jewelery simply because the image is so much better than the "evil eye" or horizontal and 45 degree angles of simple slashes or grooves possible by the "home" engraver.

basemetal

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Re: Were coins ever placed on unusual objects?
« Reply #8 on: September 06, 2006, 08:34:07 pm »
Also vespasian70, I think I read (how's that for a sound attribution) that a denarius or similar value coin was commonly used to pay the ferryman.  After all, your surviving relatives would have wanted you to go straight to the underworld with no stopping short or being thrown into the Styx.

gavignano

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Re: Were coins ever placed on unusual objects?
« Reply #9 on: September 06, 2006, 10:23:24 pm »
Basemetal - you have to win the prize for most unusual array of topics!

How about the closed eyes of the dead (Jewish, 1-2rd centuries; other cultures).  Joe

PS. I have heard of folks who swallowed coins as some sort of quirky hobby - did ancients try it?

Offline Howard Cole

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Re: Were coins ever placed on unusual objects?
« Reply #10 on: September 07, 2006, 01:56:18 am »
Basemetal - you have to win the prize for most unusual array of topics!

How about the closed eyes of the dead (Jewish, 1-2rd centuries; other cultures).  Joe

PS. I have heard of folks who swallowed coins as some sort of quirky hobby - did ancients try it?

Placing coins on the eyes of the dead did not exist in Jewish culture.  See the following article.
http://www.shroud.com/lombatti.htm

Offline Robert_Brenchley

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Re: Were coins ever placed on unusual objects?
« Reply #11 on: September 07, 2006, 05:50:17 pm »
To anyone from another culture, the old British custom of placing a coin (it was a sixpence when I was a kid) inside a Christmas pudding would seem strange indeed!
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basemetal

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Re: Were coins ever placed on unusual objects?
« Reply #12 on: September 07, 2006, 09:28:16 pm »
Gavigano:
I'll cautiously take that as a compliment.  Like the title of one of the areas on this forum, the stories behind the coins makes them more than a piece of metal with an image upon them.
I do know this:
The first emperor of a united China regularly ate "pills" which cointained mercury in the hopes of giving himself immortality.   Ahh....it didn't work but did make him "mad as a hatter" later in life.
I see "edible" gold and silver for sale on auction sites today.  The gold, probably no problem.  Ingesting large amounts of silver or it's salts or similar can-no joke-give one's skin a bluish appearance. Going through life as a large Smurf would not be pleasant.
I'm betting that if the ancient romans ate some of the things ascribed to them, someone figured out early that since eating gold didn't kill you, it must help you, or at least show that you were so filthy rich that you could afford to-eat gold.  My money is on Lucius Verus, who was said to sprinkle gold in his hair and beard and get away with it. Not get away with it from a health point of view, just not be laughed at (privately not publicly-after all he was a co-emperor or casear).

gavignano

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Re: Were coins ever placed on unusual objects?
« Reply #13 on: September 07, 2006, 10:30:05 pm »
Basemetal - it was a compliment! Your posts are always interesting.
Howard- your link, IMO, gives even more credence to the possibility of the coins being over the eyes - no way if they are in the mouth do they fall into the skull. Joe

Offline Howard Cole

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Re: Were coins ever placed on unusual objects?
« Reply #14 on: September 07, 2006, 11:15:43 pm »
If you read carefully, the skull was in an ossuary.  This is usually a stone case that bones are put into after the flesh has rotted.  This was a common practice Jewish practice during the first century AD.  It could have been easy for the coins to fall into a skull while it was being place in the ossuary or the ossuary was being moved.   Additionally this is one case out of thousands of finds.  The evidence strongly points against.

Also the Jews had a much different concept of the afterlife than the Greeks at that time.  No payment was needed for the ride into Hades.  So coins would not have been placed in the mouth of the dead.  This argument is a red herring.

Finally, there is not written evidence for this.  This era is fairly well documented.


basemetal

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Re: Were coins ever placed on unusual objects?
« Reply #15 on: September 07, 2006, 11:39:41 pm »
In a modern vein....I personally know of two incidents at funerals when coins were placed in the pockets of the dead. And another where a $20 bill was placed in the coffin...the logic being:
"He never went anywhere without at least $20 in his pocket." 
Interesting.  Even in modern times death is looked at as a "trip" or "journey".
This transition being looked at as a physical movement.
Throughout history death has been looked at as a journey to somewhere else.  You gotta take the baggage with you..... even though what comes to mind is a verse by Don Henley of the popular group (used to be anyway) the Eagles:
"Ain't no luggage racks on hearses"
Secondly, the remains are viewed as a locus of position of the dead.  We all know of this.  You go to the cemetary to the grave of a loved one.   You scatter the ashes or keep them (my brother-in-law-a case in point). My own sister is a permanent part of his mantlepiece.
We connect with the dead through the traces they leave.  A tombstone.  A box of ashes. A site where their ashes were scattered.  Aunt Emma on the mantlepiece.
As we all know coins have a magic all their own.  Place them on the eyes of the dead? What else would  you place?  Coins represent wealth and power. Bury them under a construction? Of course. What better way to ensure it's solidity? The wealth of the empire and it's citizens.   Place a coin in the mouth of the dead?  Coins represent hope, wealth, and security.  What better thing can I give to my departed (fill in the blank) than that I give him/her  purchasing power in the afterlife whichin the here and now represents wealth and power?

Offline Bacchus

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Re: Were coins ever placed on unusual objects?
« Reply #16 on: September 08, 2006, 12:45:37 am »
To anyone from another culture, the old British custom of placing a coin (it was a sixpence when I was a kid) inside a Christmas pudding would seem strange indeed!

True, always kept you on your toes when eating it and probably too dangerous to condone in todays hyper-sensitive world - I wonder how many fatalities were caused this way though  :)
MAlcolm

Offline GMoneti

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Re: Were coins ever placed on unusual objects?
« Reply #17 on: September 08, 2006, 05:38:26 am »
To anyone from another culture, the old British custom of placing a coin (it was a sixpence when I was a kid) inside a Christmas pudding would seem strange indeed!

Not so strange. In Bulgaria there is a similar tradition on Christmas or New Year's to place a coin inside a banitsa (a pie of thin dough sheets, feta cheese, eggs and other optional ingredients).  The pie is then spun while still in the baking dish and everyone around the table takes the piece in front of them (hopefully containing the coin, for good luck and prosperity).  It's kinda like roulette.  :)
Georgi

Offline PeterD

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Re: Were coins ever placed on unusual objects?
« Reply #18 on: September 08, 2006, 08:24:02 am »
Trouble is, the silver threepenny bits had to be saved for next year, so as soon as you found one it was whisked away and an ordinary brass one proffered in it's place. A very confusing ritual!
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Offline Rhetor

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Re: Were coins ever placed on unusual objects?
« Reply #19 on: September 08, 2006, 11:35:25 am »
Not directly on point, but in David Hendin's GUIDE TO BIBLICAL COINS he includes a story of a 1st-century home on the Dead Sea having 139 prutot encased in its walls when built, presumably for religious/votive/luck purposes.  The 139 coins corresponds to the amount of prutot needed to equal the silver half-shekel sacred in Jewish life, included the 8% money-changers' mark-up!  I'm not totally convinced by the explanation of the amount, but it's ingenious!

See the latest edition, pp. 24-6.

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Offline Robert_Brenchley

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Re: Were coins ever placed on unusual objects?
« Reply #20 on: September 08, 2006, 06:22:18 pm »
It could never be totally certain, but it would be a pretty odd coincidence if exactly that amount was saved by chance, including the markup! That's if it really was 8%, of course. Accorcing to the Mishnah, an agio of 4-8% had to be paid if the money had to be changed, or if a half-shekel was paid for one person; there was no agio if a full shekel was paid for two people. Trouble is, the Mishnah is essentially post-bar Kochba, so we're talking about evidence from a century or so, very roughly, after the destruction of the Temple and the end of the tax.

However, a second hoard was found on Mount Carmel in 1960, consisting of 3 400 Tyrian shekels, 1000 half-shekels, and 160 denarii of Augustus. It was buried after 53 AD, the date of the latest shekel. Leo Kadman (Israel Numismatic Bulletin No. 1, 1962, available online at http://www.begedivri.com/shekel/teachings/kadman.htm) argues that this represents the Temple tax for 7 800 Jews, and that the denarii represent the agio of 8% on the half shekels exactly. According to the Mishnah, the Temple rejected the debased denarii of Nero,explaing why only those of Augustus were used. As we have not one hoard, but two, showing the same characteristic, on top of the somewhat dodgy written evidence, I think it's as certain as it can be considering the dates we're talking about. Hendin's argument would have been much stronger if he'd cited the evidence properly.
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Offline Howard Cole

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Re: Were coins ever placed on unusual objects?
« Reply #21 on: September 09, 2006, 05:48:55 pm »
Since I am a coin collector, my wife used to place coins, wrapped in aluminum foil, under the frosting of my birthday cakes.  It was always interesting having her watch me to see if I would find the coin or eat it!  She hasn't done that for the last couple of years after I did almost eat one.

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Re: Were coins ever placed on unusual objects?
« Reply #22 on: September 09, 2006, 10:43:08 pm »
It's greek tradition for the New Years day, to place a coin into a cake (Vaselopita) while its being prepared. It's supposed to bring good luck to the person who finds it in their slice (if they don't swallow it by accident, that is!).

Peter

Offline slokind

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Re: Were coins ever placed on unusual objects?
« Reply #23 on: September 10, 2006, 01:29:44 am »
In southerm Louisiana the object is very non-numismatic.  It is a molded plastic baby (now available in pink or brown), and it is in the ring cakes we have instead of hot-cross buns in Lent.  They insist that it has nothing to do with fertility...  But I remember the Easter cakes in Athens: egg yeast bread, anise-seeded, red egg in center, a peninda lepta (half of one drachma when about 30 drachs were a dollar) baked somewhere into the cake.  Now that dates me!  Those 50 lepta coins, by the way, were hoarded to take back to the USA, because they tipped a dime slot and gave you a phone call for 1-2/3ยข.  Pat L.

 

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