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Author Topic: LordBest's Roman Imperial Portrait Gallery v2.0  (Read 6716 times)

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Offline LordBest

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LordBest's Roman Imperial Portrait Gallery v2.0
« on: July 28, 2005, 04:00:03 am »
Some of you know my old gallery of statues of the Roman empresses and emperors, it was lucky enough to be given a Forvm award last year. Well after four years languishing on Geocities, I am updating, revising and expanding the gallery alongside my collection website:
http://lordbest.napoleonicmedals.org/gallerymenu.html
Only empresses are up at the moment, emperors will follow over the next few days as it is a MUCH larger section. The whole site is literally 12 times larger than the old site, I am hoping to make it the largest online collection of images of Roman Imperial figural sculpture. Please let me know what you think and point out dead links, missing pictures etc.
                                                   LordBest. 8)

Offline Numerianus

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Re: LordBest's Roman Imperial Portrait Gallery v2.0
« Reply #1 on: July 28, 2005, 04:27:16 am »
Great! Excellent gallery.
I would be nice  to indicate where are these portraits (and say  some words of attributions) .
It could be helpful (and spectacular) to accompany the gallery of statues  by portraits from coins
(Forum members may help, I hope). 

Offline LordBest

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Re: LordBest's Roman Imperial Portrait Gallery v2.0
« Reply #2 on: July 28, 2005, 04:56:28 am »
I may add the locations, and perhaps some words of attribution at some stage, at the moment I'm concentrating on just getting the images up there. 250+ images left to go. :) Feel free to link to it or whatever. ;)
                                                   LordBest. 8)

Offline Steve Minnoch

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Re: LordBest's Roman Imperial Portrait Gallery v2.0
« Reply #3 on: July 28, 2005, 05:25:44 am »
I agree, excellent.

But the one thing that I would always be looking for with this sort of thing is how we know bust xxx is of person yyy, and how certain we can be.

Steve

P.S.
The Scantilla thumbnail has a dead link.

Offline LordBest

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Re: LordBest's Roman Imperial Portrait Gallery v2.0
« Reply #4 on: July 28, 2005, 05:38:29 am »
I would like to be able to have how we know a bust is who its identified as also, unfortunately its generally published in obscure museum catalogues which I do not have access too. In some cases its quite obvious from the appearance, in others there is an inscriptionm in some the location. I do try and note if particular identifications seem dubious, as with the Manlia Scantilla. In general we have to rely on the word of the museums. If a statue is named as a certain person ona website withouta museum reference, and it seems not to match the physical appearance of the person on coins or other statues, I will not include it.
updated the site with several more Livia's, an Antonia, Domitia, Marcia Furnilla and an awesome Messalina and Britannicus.
Fixed the Scantilla link, thanks.
                                                      LordBest. 8)

Nico Creces

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Re: LordBest's Roman Imperial Portrait Gallery v2.0
« Reply #5 on: July 28, 2005, 07:23:49 am »
I must say: awesome site :o.
Great job done, LordBest.
Congrats ;)
Nico

Retrospectator

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Re: LordBest's Roman Imperial Portrait Gallery v2.0
« Reply #6 on: July 28, 2005, 08:52:15 am »
Your sculpture portrait gallery could provide a very useful online resource. Do you plan on extending it to include other famous sculptures from the classical world? 

Offline LordBest

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Re: LordBest's Roman Imperial Portrait Gallery v2.0
« Reply #7 on: July 28, 2005, 08:58:50 am »
I hope to expand it to include Greek monarchs and famous individuals and Roman Gods, maybe Greek Gods too eventually, divided neatly into Greek originals and Roman copies.
                                                         LordBest. 8)

eduardo

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Re: LordBest's Roman Imperial Portrait Gallery v2.0
« Reply #8 on: July 28, 2005, 08:59:41 am »
Congratulations LodBest,
I have enjoyed not only the excelent portraits galery but also the Napoleonic medalions .  
Eduardo

http://www.grifomultimedia.it/adg/monrom/index.htm

AncientCoins

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Re: LordBest's Roman Imperial Portrait Gallery v2.0
« Reply #9 on: July 28, 2005, 09:09:55 am »
nice site LB!  cant wait for the emperors!

andrew

Offline LordBest

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Re: LordBest's Roman Imperial Portrait Gallery v2.0
« Reply #10 on: July 29, 2005, 03:10:52 am »
Emperors up to Domitian added, the "Twelve Caesars".
                                                   LordBest. 8)

AncientCoins

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Re: LordBest's Roman Imperial Portrait Gallery v2.0
« Reply #11 on: July 29, 2005, 03:03:40 pm »
i have a question  LB, are all the sculptures really ancient roman or are some modern?  and whats up with titus' wife, marica furnilla!  the first afro! 8)  also, are all the pics in the correct emperors?  under claudius' section, the 3rd pic says "GALBA, ROMA" on the base.  in nero's section, the first pic says CALIGOLA.

andrew

Offline slokind

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Re: LordBest's Roman Imperial Portrait Gallery v2.0
« Reply #12 on: July 29, 2005, 03:36:39 pm »
Flavian ladies' "afros" (no reference to Africa that we know of) were not their own hair.  In a side view of these heads, you see their own hair in a bun.  The bought hair, done up on a frame, was in curls (we use hair-set; they did use curling irons and, I daresay, sugar water or the like as well), which probably took the better part of an hour to get put on and made right before they went into public.  Empresses and their friends may have needed something to take up the day's long hours.
This famous portrait is unnamed.  It is not one of the empresses, but it may be Vibia Matidia, who, as I recall, was Trajan's niece and mother of the future empress Sabina, but in the time of Domitian's high life was part of the circle of Julia Titi.  What is astonishing is Marcia Furnilla and Domitia supposing they might look good in the same style!
Patricia Lawrence

AncientCoins

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Re: LordBest's Roman Imperial Portrait Gallery v2.0
« Reply #13 on: July 29, 2005, 03:43:26 pm »
so marcia furnilla's real hair is done up in the back?  and this is hair styled into a funky way?  also, is julia domnas"rug-like hair"  her hair held together or is it another wig-like thing.

1 is marcia furnilla, and 2 is julia domna.

thanks for the great sculptures, LB ;D

andrew

Offline slokind

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Re: LordBest's Roman Imperial Portrait Gallery v2.0
« Reply #14 on: July 29, 2005, 03:47:14 pm »
04 X 99  AR denarius  Julia Domna, wife of Septimius Severus, mother of Caracalla and Geta.  Draped bust to r.  IVLIA DO    MNA AVG: It is the earliest coins (before AD 196: see Doug Smith's pages on Septimius and Julia) that have her name thus divided (also they show a still late-Antonine hairstyle).
This is one of the first 10 coins I ever bought, and the info is exactly what I knew in October of 1999!
But, yes, Julia as she grew older wore that hearth-rug wig.  When she was young and pretty and those boys of hers were still cute children, she looked like this and wore her hair much as Crispina had worn hers.
Pat L.

Offline Jochen

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Re: LordBest's Roman Imperial Portrait Gallery v2.0
« Reply #15 on: July 29, 2005, 04:49:19 pm »
But I think she looks a bit melancholic on this obverse as if she anticipates already her own and the future of her sons.

Regards

Offline LordBest

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Re: LordBest's Roman Imperial Portrait Gallery v2.0
« Reply #16 on: July 30, 2005, 08:08:25 am »
In regards to mismatched names on some pictures, the busts were often inscribed during the renaissance with attributions now considered to be incorrect. As to whether the busts are ancient and modern, for the most part the heads are, and many of the busts too. some have modern busts added, by modern I still mean renaissance as the practise ceased long ago. Many may have modern restoration work done, this may be obvious or so well done it isnt, in either case it isnt mentioned. The site is a gallery, not a reference afterall. :)
Added Nerva through to Aelius, progress is slowed due to a bad headcold, not that any of you will be waiting with bated breath for an update. ;)
You can actually begin to see different aristic schools at work in the busts, some of th eyes, particularly in the Severan dynasty, are clearly engraved in a far more "oriental" fashion.
                                                         LordBest. 8)

Offline slokind

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Re: LordBest's Roman Imperial Portrait Gallery v2.0
« Reply #17 on: July 30, 2005, 02:42:30 pm »
Even in quotation marks, the term "oriental" won't do for the engraving of the eyes, for several reasons.  (a) in the 19th, even early 20th, century they sometimes meant simply Greek-speaking lands by that term, (b) who knows what some of the writers meant, (c) most important, the habit may have come from trying to imitate the eyes of bronze statues.  That's just three.   Pat

Offline LordBest

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Re: LordBest's Roman Imperial Portrait Gallery v2.0
« Reply #18 on: August 01, 2005, 05:27:56 am »
Well, Eastern style rather than oriental would be better. I just saw an odd number of "Arabesque" shaped eyes in the Severan period and wondered if it may have been a "Afro-Roman" style of engraving. :)
Antoninus Pius through to Clodius Albinus added, Vitellius removed on account of not being Vitellius. Apologies for the size of the Pescennius Niger.
                                                        LordBest. 8) 

Offline slokind

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Re: LordBest's Roman Imperial Portrait Gallery v2.0
« Reply #19 on: August 01, 2005, 03:44:38 pm »
Well, portraits made east of Italy and by sculptors trained east of Italy used to be called sinply 'eastern style', but what should be said instead was where they were found and what kind of marble (if that is obvious) they are made of.  Of course, 'eastern' and 'oriental' are as perfect synonyms (none is quite perfect) as can be found.  Edward Said (RIP) was mistaken in objecting to the word as such, though his feelings were understandable.  The real problem with both words is that they are equally vague and relative (how far east? NE or SE?, etc.).  And some of the styles that used to be called 'eastern' might actually be, well, Siscian or thereabouts.  It is one of the pities of the www that the use of out-of-copyright "sources" has put some terms thought dead (and a good thing) back into circulation.
It is inconsistent with the understanding of the second half of the 20th c. and of the 21st c. to use the 19th-century terms, the whole 'Orient oder Rom' thing, because these terms of Strygowski's generation (I may have misspelled his name) just don't say anything real, while still tempting the uninformed to think of invidious old associations.
As for the engraving of the iris and pupil of the eye, it has, as I said, nothing whatever to do with easternness, anyway.
On one of the photos I sent you (in the File Info, written for my undergraduates), I wrote something like, Here we see the first clear hints of what will evolve into Early Byzantine style.  I was thinking that it began to look a bit like the Aelia Flacilla in Copenhagen, for example.  And even so, I ought to have been more concrete; I ought to have said, Here we already may compare the Early Byzantine style of portraits of Aelia Flacilla.
Pat L.

Offline LordBest

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Re: LordBest's Roman Imperial Portrait Gallery v2.0
« Reply #20 on: August 02, 2005, 07:40:34 am »
Severans added, check out the Macrinus and Severus Alexander bronzes. Particularly the Macrinus.
                                                   LordBest. 8)

coindoctor

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Re: LordBest's Roman Imperial Portrait Gallery v2.0
« Reply #21 on: July 15, 2006, 09:03:12 pm »
What a horrible nose job!

Offline Robert_Brenchley

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Re: LordBest's Roman Imperial Portrait Gallery v2.0
« Reply #22 on: July 16, 2006, 05:28:53 am »
I wonder whether that hairstyle would have been a wig or hair extensions. I've seen those very elaborate hairstyles done both ways, though extensions are far more popular, since you'd need a separate wig for every variation. I doubt whether that would have been a consideration for an empress though!
Robert Brenchley

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Offline LordBest

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Re: LordBest's Roman Imperial Portrait Gallery v2.0
« Reply #23 on: July 16, 2006, 06:21:24 am »
Most likely a wig, judging from the view of the back. On the Flavian hairstyles you can see quite clearly its just a mass of hair sitting on top of a fairly ordinary pony tail, or whatever its called these days.
                                           LordBest. 8)

Offline Robert_Brenchley

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Re: LordBest's Roman Imperial Portrait Gallery v2.0
« Reply #24 on: July 16, 2006, 09:26:50 am »
That's a bit revealing; women I know who wear wigs have their own cut really close, or have something like corn rows which holds it in so nothing shows.
Robert Brenchley

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Offline Tiathena

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Re: LordBest's Roman Imperial Portrait Gallery v2.0
« Reply #25 on: July 16, 2006, 11:46:52 am »
Facilius per partes in cognitionem totius adducimur.  ~ Seneca
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basemetal

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Re: LordBest's Roman Imperial Portrait Gallery v2.0
« Reply #26 on: July 16, 2006, 07:45:08 pm »

Offline Matthew Raica

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Re: LordBest's Roman Imperial Portrait Gallery v2.0
« Reply #27 on: July 17, 2006, 11:21:57 pm »

Offline Marius

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Re: LordBest's Roman Imperial Portrait Gallery v2.0
« Reply #28 on: July 24, 2006, 03:25:46 am »
Richard Marius Beale
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Offline LordBest

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Re: LordBest's Roman Imperial Portrait Gallery v2.0
« Reply #29 on: July 24, 2006, 04:11:15 am »

basemetal

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Re: LordBest's Roman Imperial Portrait Gallery v2.0
« Reply #30 on: July 24, 2006, 09:48:33 pm »

Bolt

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Re: LordBest's Roman Imperial Portrait Gallery v2.0
« Reply #31 on: July 25, 2006, 06:01:28 am »

 

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