Classical Numismatics Discussion
  Welcome Guest. Please login or register. All Items Purchased From Forum Ancient Coins Are Guaranteed Authentic For Eternity!!! Explore Our Website And Find Joy In The History, Numismatics, Art, Mythology, And Geography Of Coins!!! Expert Authentication - Accurate Descriptions - Reasonable Prices - Coins From Under $10 To Museum Quality Rarities Welcome Guest. Please login or register. Internet Challenged? We Are Happy To Take Your Order Over The Phone 252-646-1958 Explore Our Website And Find Joy In The History, Numismatics, Art, Mythology, And Geography Of Coins!!! Support Our Efforts To Serve The Classical Numismatics Community - Shop At Forum Ancient Coins!!!

Recent Additions to Forum's Shop


Author Topic: Expanded Fourree Page  (Read 3157 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Joe Sermarini

  • Owner, President
  • FORVM STAFF
  • Caesar
  • *****
  • Posts: 10633
  • All Coins Guaranteed for Eternity.
    • FORVM ANCIENT COINS
Expanded Fourree Page
« on: April 26, 2016, 08:18:36 pm »
Fourree - click it to see it. Please comment if you have a suggestion to improve it or if you find it informative or interesting.
Joseph Sermarini
Owner, President
FORVM ANCIENT COINS

Offline Carausius

  • Procurator Caesaris
  • Caesar
  • ****
  • Posts: 1389
    • My Forum Gallery:
Re: Expanded Fourree Page
« Reply #1 on: April 27, 2016, 12:29:09 am »
I think you've covered it well. (that's a fourree joke  ;) )

Offline Joe Sermarini

  • Owner, President
  • FORVM STAFF
  • Caesar
  • *****
  • Posts: 10633
  • All Coins Guaranteed for Eternity.
    • FORVM ANCIENT COINS
Re: Expanded Fourree Page
« Reply #2 on: April 27, 2016, 06:43:29 am »
:)
Joseph Sermarini
Owner, President
FORVM ANCIENT COINS

Offline dougsmit

  • Tribunus Plebis Perpetuus
  • Procurator Monetae
  • Caesar
  • *****
  • Posts: 2126
    • Ancient Greek & Roman Coins
Re: Expanded Fourree Page
« Reply #3 on: April 27, 2016, 01:16:57 pm »
Overall I like the page.  It makes me ashamed that I have not updated my page (linked at the bottom  of yours) fo a long time.  I absolutely love the Antony legionary that lost its entire second foil.
  
Certainly many fourrees are underweight but some of the fakers realized this and made the coins just a little oversize so the weight was in specs.  You just can not trust the crafty criminal element!  There is an Athens tetradrachm on my site my site weighing 16.5g.

The great book on the subject By Campbell mentioned on my site is now available online.  I really recommend reading it if you have any interest in plated coins.
https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=inu.30000104992965;view=1up;seq=7

You also might add a section of coins sometimes mistaken for fourrees that are actually solid.  Silver coins hoarded with coppers can pick up red or green surface deposits on top of the silver.  To be fourree, the base metal must be underneath.

I suppose it does not belong on a technical page but I am distressed by the recent rise in interest, therefore prices, for fourrees that are in terrible condition.  I find them interesting but not more so than solid coins.  

I would never have led off with a very barbarous Maximinus not made by the foil process although it is a nice coin.  You need a very typical coin that shouts 'fourree'!   There are two things I would like to see added but one I lack also.  There are fourree copper coins with iron cores.  Years ago I saw a Nero as with red stains from the iron but was mostly just a broken, hollow copper shell. The other is a gold over silver core.  Gold over copper is more common but gold sticks to silver better so I suspect these were harder to detect.
 

Offline dougsmit

  • Tribunus Plebis Perpetuus
  • Procurator Monetae
  • Caesar
  • *****
  • Posts: 2126
    • Ancient Greek & Roman Coins
Re: Expanded Fourree Page
« Reply #4 on: April 27, 2016, 01:31:56 pm »
Recently I felt lucky to obtain a half coin that tells a lot about fourrees if you look carefully.  Before it was cut, there was no core exposure but there is a seam best seen at the far left that probably attracted attention of a tester who knew his job.

Offline Joe Sermarini

  • Owner, President
  • FORVM STAFF
  • Caesar
  • *****
  • Posts: 10633
  • All Coins Guaranteed for Eternity.
    • FORVM ANCIENT COINS
Re: Expanded Fourree Page
« Reply #5 on: April 27, 2016, 02:15:48 pm »
Certainly many fourrees are underweight but some of the fakers realized this and made the coins just a little oversize so the weight was in specs.  You just can not trust the crafty criminal element!  There is an Athens tetradrachm on my site my site weighing 16.5g.

Good point. Please note that it is a wiki page, and you (and others) are very welcome to make corrections and additions. I will add this one now.

You also might add a section of coins sometimes mistaken for fourrees that are actually solid.  Silver coins hoarded with coppers can pick up red or green surface deposits on top of the silver.  To be fourree, the base metal must be underneath.

I actually intended to do that but ran out of steam and had to get back to work on the shop. Perhaps another day. Or someone else will add it.

I would never have led off with a very barbarous Maximinus not made by the foil process although it is a nice coin.  You need a very typical coin that shouts 'fourree'!   There are two things I would like to see added but one I lack also.  There are fourree copper coins with iron cores.  Years ago I saw a Nero as with red stains from the iron but was mostly just a broken, hollow copper shell. The other is a gold over silver core.  Gold over copper is more common but gold sticks to silver better so I suspect these were harder to detect.

I agree.  The page needs a really great, typical example to go under the title.  Another idea for the next update.  Or maybe the cut coin above. Examples of the two oddities, and others, would also be an improvement.  If you get some good pics please add them.

Thanks.
Joseph Sermarini
Owner, President
FORVM ANCIENT COINS

Offline dougsmit

  • Tribunus Plebis Perpetuus
  • Procurator Monetae
  • Caesar
  • *****
  • Posts: 2126
    • Ancient Greek & Roman Coins
Re: Expanded Fourree Page
« Reply #6 on: April 27, 2016, 07:54:18 pm »
The first step is to decide just what characteristics make a 'perfect' coin to illustrate a point.   In this case, I'll suggest the coin should be:

1. Simultaneously attractive and obviously fourree

2. A coin many/most people would recognize

3. A coin that shows classic examples of the characteristics that allow diagnosis of a fourree (seams)

4. A coin that people would say 'too bad its plated'

Perhaps this Mark Antony.  It has a strong seam, considerable core exposure and wear through to core on the high points like ship hull and letters RP under it.

The other one shown here is an Augustus with a perfect seam on the obverse and well contained core on reverse high points. I question if it may have too little core to be what is needed as a poster coin for the term fourree.   

I'll hope someday to update my page and will leave Wikiwork to those who choose that venue.  I need to get busy on my pages or they will no longer be worth keeping online.  That would hurt me. 

Offline Joe Sermarini

  • Owner, President
  • FORVM STAFF
  • Caesar
  • *****
  • Posts: 10633
  • All Coins Guaranteed for Eternity.
    • FORVM ANCIENT COINS
Re: Expanded Fourree Page
« Reply #7 on: April 27, 2016, 09:22:00 pm »
Both very nice examples!

I think your Fourree pages are excellent and I don't think the NumisWiki page will ever be a replacement for them.
Joseph Sermarini
Owner, President
FORVM ANCIENT COINS

 

All coins are guaranteed for eternity