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Author Topic: FORTVN REDVG? (sic) - am I reading this right?  (Read 423 times)

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Offline Ron C2

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FORTVN REDVG? (sic) - am I reading this right?
« on: July 05, 2021, 07:26:13 pm »
I've got another finer point of attribution I'd like to run past my fellow Septimius fans.

This coin was sold to me and attributed by a dealer as RIC IVa 383, but I think it's actually 383a. 

The difference is that 383 is spelled correctly as FORTVN REDVC.

383a is FORTVN REDVG
383b is FORTVI REDVC

So obviously on this issue, like many Emesa issues, spelling mistakes on the reverse were really common.  I've heard it hypothesized that the celators were either Greek unfamiliar with Latin, or illiterate workers copying a correctly spelled master coin. 

All three RIC 383 variants have the same rarity rating, and Cohen considered these to all be C175, regardless of spelling differences.  Across all variants there were only 3 examples in RD according to Mouchmov and the entire issue is classed "scrace" by Mattingly

Truthfully, I think this is the REDVG variant, as I think the finally character is what Mattingly interpreted as a G - but I'm looking for other opinions on the matter. 



Details of the coin here:

https://www.forumancientcoins.com/gallery/displayimage.php?pid=171085
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R. Cormier, Ottawa

Offline maridvnvm

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Re: FORTVN REDVG? (sic) - am I reading this right?
« Reply #1 on: July 06, 2021, 04:58:09 am »
In my opinion there are too many minor engraving irregularities with Cs and Gs to give each of these a different attribution. I suspect that here the engraver was placing a serif on the C and it is not quite aligned rather than intending a G.

I have gathered several RIC 383s over the years and have noted that the vast majority follow the same legend break as yours i.e. FORTVN R-EDVC. In fact 5 of my 6 examples follow this legend break and I have 1 that breaks differently as FORTV-N REDVC



There are other variations that exist too, such as:-

FORTVNE REDVCI



FORTV-NA REDVCI


Then there are examples from the odd, short legend series....

Obv:– IMP CA L SEP SEV PER AVG COS II, Laureate head right
Rev:– FORT REDVC, Fortuna (Hilaritas), standing front, head left, holding long palm and cornucopiae



and be on the look out for the COS II, Hilaritas seated variant



There are a whole host of Hilaritas variants from the eastern IMP II and IMP VIII series too.

Offline Ron C2

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Re: FORTVN REDVG? (sic) - am I reading this right?
« Reply #2 on: July 06, 2021, 07:42:46 am »
Thanks for all the other variant photos, very helpful.  I understand your viewpoint maridunum, but I don't think the device on my coin is a mis-carved serif.  It's very deep and deliberate.  If you look at the "F" on the same legend, they deliberately also carved and odd tail on the bottom of the letter which is also not a serif. 

I have no idea if the celator intended a G, or just a decorative letter device like on the F, but my suspicion is this variant is what Mattingly thought was a G.  In many instances, like on your examples, the letter C and G would look indiscernible, but on my coin, it looks much more pronounced and deliberate.

Happy for alternate opinions :)
My Ancient Coin Gallery: Click here

R. Cormier, Ottawa

Offline maridvnvm

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Re: FORTVN REDVG? (sic) - am I reading this right?
« Reply #3 on: July 06, 2021, 10:15:12 am »
I doesn't look like any deliberately formed G from this mint that I have sen either. The following has what I would call a typical G.



This one has a disjointed G but it does not look like a C with an extra stroke. The tail which would link to the G is typically thinner.



I personally think that it is a big leap to calling it a G having looked at 100s of Gs from this mint.

Offline maridvnvm

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Re: FORTVN REDVG? (sic) - am I reading this right?
« Reply #4 on: July 06, 2021, 10:17:41 am »
Literally a few seconds after posting the above I spotted this one.



This is intended to be a G and seems to be formed similarly to yours. I retract my statement above and would accept it as a potential G.

Offline Ron C2

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Re: FORTVN REDVG? (sic) - am I reading this right?
« Reply #5 on: July 06, 2021, 11:49:43 am »
Wow, great reference examples. Are these all in your collection?
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Offline maridvnvm

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Re: FORTVN REDVG? (sic) - am I reading this right?
« Reply #6 on: July 06, 2021, 01:13:52 pm »
Yes. All the coins that I shared above are in my collection.
Regards
Martin

Offline Ron C2

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Re: FORTVN REDVG? (sic) - am I reading this right?
« Reply #7 on: July 06, 2021, 07:02:14 pm »
Every time I think I am making progress at a ice Septimius collection, I'm reminded how much more time and effort others have already invested in the same endeavor. 

Thanks so much for sharing your great examples.

Cheers.
My Ancient Coin Gallery: Click here

R. Cormier, Ottawa

Offline maridvnvm

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Re: FORTVN REDVG? (sic) - am I reading this right?
« Reply #8 on: July 07, 2021, 05:30:08 am »
I have most of my collection posted in my gallery. I have started to structure the Severans as I find them best for me even if they don't follow the references. I am making a study of the short legend COS II variants and thus have created a separate gallery for them. I have also separated out the longer SEVER legend varieties of the early IMP VIII series so that I can find them more easily in my gallery.

My main focus nowadays is on the odd COS legends (II CO, II COS etc), the COS II reverse legends, the shorter COS II legends and filling gaps in the IMP II and IMP VIII series.

https://www.forumancientcoins.com/gallery/index.php?cat=10618

I have started a project to try and document them all and put them online in a more structured manner but this may take me some time.

I have been collecting these for about 20 years and even then I stand in the shadows of Curtis Clay, Doug Smith and Barry Murphy when it comes to these series.
Regards,
Martin

 

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