Classical Numismatics Discussion
  Welcome Guest. Please login or register. All Items Purchased From Forum Ancient Coins Are Guaranteed Authentic For Eternity!!! Explore Our Website And Find Joy In The History, Numismatics, Art, Mythology, And Geography Of Coins!!! Expert Authentication - Accurate Descriptions - Reasonable Prices - Coins From Under $10 To Museum Quality Rarities Welcome Guest. Please login or register. Internet challenged? We Are Happy To Take Your Order Over The Phone 252-646-1958 Explore Our Website And Find Joy In The History, Numismatics, Art, Mythology, And Geography Of Coins!!! Support Our Efforts To Serve The Classical Numismatics Community - Shop At Forum Ancient Coins

New & Reduced


Author Topic: Phoenix on Pyre  (Read 22313 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Bluefish

  • Comitia Curiata II
  • Consul
  • ***
  • Posts: 243
  • I used to have a handle on life, but it broke
Phoenix on Pyre
« on: November 20, 2004, 11:23:56 pm »
Question folks....

 I thought in the beginning that the phoenix was atop a pile of rocks. Now I know it is a pyre. The five layers it is standing on...are those representations of logs?? If so, if seen from a side angle, would you imagine them to be cross-stacked, log cabin style, or are they all in the same direction forming the pyramid shape?
HAM & EGGS-a day's work for a chicken, a lifetime commitment for a pig.  
The only difference between a rut & a grave is the depth

Offline Steve Minnoch

  • Tribunus Plebis 2007
  • Procurator Monetae
  • Caesar
  • *****
  • Posts: 2307
Re:Phoenix on Pyre
« Reply #1 on: November 21, 2004, 12:02:48 am »
Every source (including RIC VIII) I can recall describes it as a pile of rocks (excluding the the variety where it is clearly on a globe).  Who says it is a pyre, and why?

Steve

Offline divo

  • Consul
  • ***
  • Posts: 161
Re:Phoenix on Pyre
« Reply #2 on: November 21, 2004, 12:07:42 am »
VM has pyre listed.

           Divo

Offline Bluefish

  • Comitia Curiata II
  • Consul
  • ***
  • Posts: 243
  • I used to have a handle on life, but it broke
Re:Phoenix on Pyre
« Reply #3 on: November 21, 2004, 12:08:01 am »
Hi Steve.

 I have seen it so described in a few posts here on Forvm, and in looking at a dozen or so entries under Constans and one of the other sons on Wildwinds and DOC's, it is described as such. As to "why", I have no idea. (I'd actually prefer it to be a rock pile, truth be told)
HAM & EGGS-a day's work for a chicken, a lifetime commitment for a pig.  
The only difference between a rut & a grave is the depth

Offline Steve Minnoch

  • Tribunus Plebis 2007
  • Procurator Monetae
  • Caesar
  • *****
  • Posts: 2307
Re:Phoenix on Pyre
« Reply #4 on: November 21, 2004, 12:32:26 am »
I would like to think I keep an open mind on such issues, but it certainly looks like a pile of rocks, at least on some of the best preserved coins I've seen, and at least superficially placing the phoenix on a pyre would seem to contradict the message of FEL TEMP REPARATIO - more like the idea of a phoenix rising from the ashes, not placed on a pyre not yet burnt... or is the "rising from the ashes" idea a more modern one than I thought?

I'd love to hear any arguments why it would be a pyre.

Steve

Offline Robert_Brenchley

  • Procurator Caesaris
  • Caesar
  • ****
  • Posts: 7307
  • Honi soit qui mal y pense.
    • My gallery
Re:Phoenix on Pyre
« Reply #5 on: November 21, 2004, 08:15:36 am »
Maybe the Roman mindset worked a bit differently to ours; a phoenix rising from the ashes would be an appropriate symbol to us, of the empire reborn, but the bird on an unlit pyre might have been the way this same idea was expressed at the time.
Robert Brenchley

My gallery: https://www.forumancientcoins.com/gallery/index.php?cat=10405
Fiat justitia ruat caelum

Offline Jochen

  • Tribunus Plebis Perpetuus
  • Procurator Monetae
  • Caesar
  • *****
  • Posts: 12311
  • Omnes vulnerant, ultima necat.
Re:Phoenix on Pyre
« Reply #6 on: November 21, 2004, 08:22:56 am »
Here is a short description of the myth of Phoenix:

[The Roman poet] Ovid tells the story of the Phoenix as follows: 'Most beings spring from other individuals; but there is a certain kind which reproduces itself. The Assyrians call it the Phoenix. It does not live on fruit or flowers, but on frankincense and odoriferous gums. When it has lived five hundred years, it builds itself a nest in the branches of an oak, or on the top of a palm tree. In this it collects cinnamon and spikenard, and myrrh, and of these materials builds a pile on which it deposits itself, and dying, breathes out its last breath amidst odors.
From the body of the parent bird, a young Phoenix issues forth, destined to live as long a life as its predecessor. When this has grown up and gained sufficient strength, it lifts its nest from the tree (its own cradle and its parent's sepulchre), and carries it to the city of Heliopolis in Egypt, and deposits it in the temple of the Sun.'

from Bulfinch's Mythology

So it is not understandable why there should be a pile of rocks. Rocks are not part of this myth! The so-called rocks are the logs of a pyre!

Regards,
Jochen

Offline Bluefish

  • Comitia Curiata II
  • Consul
  • ***
  • Posts: 243
  • I used to have a handle on life, but it broke
Re:Phoenix on Pyre
« Reply #7 on: November 21, 2004, 08:40:54 am »
Quote
In this it collects cinnamon and spikenard, and myrrh, and of these materials builds a pile on which it deposits itself, and dying, breathes out its last breath amidst odors.


 I see your point Jochen, but if the above is what the Romans based the depiction on, logs wouldn't make sense either. I can't see an accumulated "pile", not "pyre" looking like it does on the reverse. Also, in this version of the birds demise there is no mention of fire, which would lend itself to a pyre, only a calm death.
 ???
HAM & EGGS-a day's work for a chicken, a lifetime commitment for a pig.  
The only difference between a rut & a grave is the depth

canadian_boy

  • Guest
Re:Phoenix on Pyre
« Reply #8 on: November 21, 2004, 02:53:41 pm »
I've always assumed it to be a pyre of stacked wood.  I have a couple of very clear examples of the reverse and it appears clear that they are NOT rocks - and because the Romans did do some cremation - the pyre of wood seemed logical to me.  Interesting thread.

Offline Steve Minnoch

  • Tribunus Plebis 2007
  • Procurator Monetae
  • Caesar
  • *****
  • Posts: 2307
Re:Phoenix on Pyre
« Reply #9 on: November 21, 2004, 03:05:29 pm »
Rocks are not part of this myth! The so-called rocks are the logs of a pyre!

But also a globe is not part of the myth, at least as stated above, and on the other variant there is no doubt that he stands on a globe (it surely isn't the sun) - so the iconography does not have to be explicitly linked to the original story, or does it?  

Not convinced yet.
Steve

Offline Schwami

  • Praetorian
  • **
  • Posts: 63
Re:Phoenix on Pyre
« Reply #10 on: November 21, 2004, 03:11:04 pm »
I agree, this is an interesting thread.

The first appearance of a phoenix on a Roman coin is a rare aureus minted by Hadrian early in his reign, with the portrait of the deified Trajan on the obverse and a simple, elegant rendering of a phoenix on the reverse.  No legend on the reverse, just the phoenix - not standing on a pile of rocks or a pyre or a globe, but sometimes standing on or holding a laurel branch.  The message seems clear - the death of the beloved Trajan leads to the birth of a new reign under Hadrian.
Lyndall J. Huggler

Offline Jochen

  • Tribunus Plebis Perpetuus
  • Procurator Monetae
  • Caesar
  • *****
  • Posts: 12311
  • Omnes vulnerant, ultima necat.
Re:Phoenix on Pyre
« Reply #11 on: November 21, 2004, 04:36:24 pm »
Hi!

Steve wrote:
Every source (including RIC VIII) I can recall describes it as a pile of rocks (excluding the the variety where it is clearly on a globe).  Who says it is a pyre, and why?

But a short look shows:
Cohen speaks of 'bucher', that is French for 'wooden stock'!
Carson/Hill/Kent in 'Late Roman Bronze Coinage' described this type as 'Phoenix on pyre' too!
Sear describes it as 'Phoenix on pyre'
Doug Smith in his excellent site speaks of 'pyre' too!

On Wildwinds there is sometimes 'rocks', sometimes 'pyre', depending on the source of the description. I think it is Mattingly who has introduced the term 'Phoenix on rocks'.

Ok, that is no answer to the question, what it is really. But it proves that the description of this rev. is not undoubtfully 'Phoenix on rocks'!

Regards,
Jochen

vic9128

  • Guest
Re:Phoenix on Pyre
« Reply #12 on: November 21, 2004, 04:49:35 pm »
I have always beleived this to be a pyre. I think the celator has taken a little artistic license in his representation for symbolic reasons. This is a symbol for the Romans and imagine trying to represent a burned pyre...that would just be a sorry pile of ashes, besides being difficult to represent on a coin it would not be very glorious; but the pyre before it is burned looks good and the Romans(the ones that cared) understood the symbolism perfectly well.

Offline Bluefish

  • Comitia Curiata II
  • Consul
  • ***
  • Posts: 243
  • I used to have a handle on life, but it broke
Re:Phoenix on Pyre
« Reply #13 on: November 21, 2004, 04:58:15 pm »
Ok....now back to the second half of my original question. If it is a log pyre, are the logs cross-stacked up to 5 rows, or are they all in the same length-wise direction forming the pyramid?
HAM & EGGS-a day's work for a chicken, a lifetime commitment for a pig.  
The only difference between a rut & a grave is the depth

Offline Steve Minnoch

  • Tribunus Plebis 2007
  • Procurator Monetae
  • Caesar
  • *****
  • Posts: 2307
Re:Phoenix on Pyre
« Reply #14 on: November 21, 2004, 05:03:37 pm »
Carson/Hill/Kent in 'Late Roman Bronze Coinage' described this type as 'Phoenix on pyre' too!

But on the other hand Dr Kent for one seems to have changed his mind in the intervening years before RIC VIII came out?  Actually he uses the phrase "rocky mound", which leaves scope for either interpretation.

I'm certainly not claiming it is beyond doubt a pile of rocks, just sitting on the fence.

Steve

Offline Jochen

  • Tribunus Plebis Perpetuus
  • Procurator Monetae
  • Caesar
  • *****
  • Posts: 12311
  • Omnes vulnerant, ultima necat.
Re:Phoenix on Pyre
« Reply #15 on: November 21, 2004, 05:24:02 pm »
Hi Bluefish!

It's funny! In the moment we have two coins with 'Phoenix on pyre' (I will take this for real until I will be convinced from the opposite) in our Gallery! And there one heap of logs you can see facing and the other (in 'Animals'!) you can see from the side, at least you can interprete it this way! And this could be the answer to your question!

Go to 'Gallery', click 'Search' and enter 'Phoenix'!

Regards,
Jochen

Offline Bluefish

  • Comitia Curiata II
  • Consul
  • ***
  • Posts: 243
  • I used to have a handle on life, but it broke
Re:Phoenix on Pyre
« Reply #16 on: November 21, 2004, 05:53:27 pm »
Quote
just sitting on the fence

 Absolutely not. Bad enough we are so confused as to rocks or logs. I refuse to entertain the notion that the Phoenix is atop a fence. No way, no how.    ;)

 Thanks Jochen, I'll check the gallery
HAM & EGGS-a day's work for a chicken, a lifetime commitment for a pig.  
The only difference between a rut & a grave is the depth

Massanutten

  • Guest
Re:Phoenix on Pyre
« Reply #17 on: November 21, 2004, 09:47:23 pm »
I am the one who put the Phoenix in the Zoo.  Am posting a better pic here.  Posted the other when I first reactivated on this Board.  At least for this example, I have no trouble with logs and a pyre. Perhaps others have more examples.
Best regards, Bob

Offline Steve Minnoch

  • Tribunus Plebis 2007
  • Procurator Monetae
  • Caesar
  • *****
  • Posts: 2307
Re:Phoenix on Pyre
« Reply #18 on: November 21, 2004, 10:00:07 pm »
RIC VIII p35-36
The phoenix was the emblem par excellence of renewal, and therefore an apt symbol for the whole issue. It may be found either on 'rocks', i.e. a mountain, in the act of self-regeneration, or on a globe, where it replaces the more usual Victory.

In a footnote:
11 For a mosaic representation of "Phoenix on rocks", see F. van der Meer & C. Mohrmann, Atlas, 101, fig. 290.

Still sitting on the fence.  Love to see that mosaic though!
Steve

P.S.
Bob's coin looks more convincing as a pyre, than say the top 3 on http://www.coinarchives.com/a/lotviewer.php?LotID=12765&AucID=11&Lot=1230&Match=1, but there is always the possibility that the depiction varies, and the engravers at some mints were not exactly sure what they were engraving?

Offline Steve Minnoch

  • Tribunus Plebis 2007
  • Procurator Monetae
  • Caesar
  • *****
  • Posts: 2307
Re:Phoenix on Pyre
« Reply #19 on: November 21, 2004, 10:56:36 pm »

vic9128

  • Guest
Re:Phoenix on Pyre
« Reply #20 on: November 21, 2004, 10:59:46 pm »
That mosaic could represent a pile of ashes.

canadian_boy

  • Guest
Re:Phoenix on Pyre
« Reply #21 on: November 22, 2004, 04:40:37 pm »
I haven't had so much fun since we solved the 'horn' on Elagabalus's head issue!!! Now I really don't know if it is a pile of logs or a pile of rocks!!

Offline Jochen

  • Tribunus Plebis Perpetuus
  • Procurator Monetae
  • Caesar
  • *****
  • Posts: 12311
  • Omnes vulnerant, ultima necat.
Re:Phoenix on Pyre
« Reply #22 on: November 22, 2004, 05:31:14 pm »
Hallo to everybody interested in the pyre-problem!

Browsing to all phoenix depictions I could get, now I think there are two different types:
1. Phoenix on pyre
    So the two pics in our gallery belongs to this type!
3. Phoenix on rocks!
    See the attached pic of Constans from HJB

The next step would be to search for the distribution of this two types
a) related to the emperor
b) related to the mint
c) are these types time dependend?

Regards,
Jochen

Offline slokind

  • Tribuna Plebis Perpetua
  • Procurator Monetae
  • Caesar
  • *****
  • Posts: 6654
  • Art is an experimental science
    • An Art Historian's Numismatics Studies
Re:Phoenix on Pyre
« Reply #23 on: November 22, 2004, 06:40:11 pm »
Here is a digital snapshot of the Antioch on the Orontes Phoenix in the Louvre.  Definitely rocks.  Maybe pyre alludes to Rome consecratio???  Don't forget the one with a globe.
PL

Offline Bluefish

  • Comitia Curiata II
  • Consul
  • ***
  • Posts: 243
  • I used to have a handle on life, but it broke
Re:Phoenix on Pyre
« Reply #24 on: November 22, 2004, 06:40:13 pm »
Yes, those are DEFINATELY rocks....ok, seems like there ARE two types!!!!
HAM & EGGS-a day's work for a chicken, a lifetime commitment for a pig.  
The only difference between a rut & a grave is the depth

Offline Steve Minnoch

  • Tribunus Plebis 2007
  • Procurator Monetae
  • Caesar
  • *****
  • Posts: 2307
Re:Phoenix on Pyre
« Reply #25 on: November 22, 2004, 06:59:09 pm »

Offline Numerianus

  • Procurator Caesaris
  • Caesar
  • ****
  • Posts: 1181
  • I love this forum!
Re:Phoenix on Pyre
« Reply #26 on: November 23, 2004, 12:52:43 pm »

Offline Jochen

  • Tribunus Plebis Perpetuus
  • Procurator Monetae
  • Caesar
  • *****
  • Posts: 12311
  • Omnes vulnerant, ultima necat.
Re:Phoenix on Pyre
« Reply #27 on: November 23, 2004, 02:49:58 pm »

Massanutten

  • Guest
Re:Phoenix on Pyre
« Reply #28 on: November 23, 2004, 05:36:29 pm »

Offline Numerianus

  • Procurator Caesaris
  • Caesar
  • ****
  • Posts: 1181
  • I love this forum!
Re:Phoenix on Pyre
« Reply #29 on: November 24, 2004, 09:00:03 am »

Offline Heliodromus

  • Procurator Caesaris
  • Caesar
  • ****
  • Posts: 2176
Re:Phoenix on Pyre
« Reply #30 on: November 24, 2004, 11:37:08 am »

Offline Steve Minnoch

  • Tribunus Plebis 2007
  • Procurator Monetae
  • Caesar
  • *****
  • Posts: 2307
Re:Phoenix on Pyre
« Reply #31 on: November 24, 2004, 12:22:11 pm »

Offline Heliodromus

  • Procurator Caesaris
  • Caesar
  • ****
  • Posts: 2176
Re:Phoenix on Pyre
« Reply #32 on: November 24, 2004, 12:55:14 pm »

Massanutten

  • Guest
Re:Phoenix on Pyre
« Reply #33 on: November 24, 2004, 07:18:59 pm »

Offline Steve Minnoch

  • Tribunus Plebis 2007
  • Procurator Monetae
  • Caesar
  • *****
  • Posts: 2307
Re:Phoenix on Pyre
« Reply #34 on: November 24, 2004, 07:59:31 pm »

Massanutten

  • Guest
Re:Phoenix on Pyre
« Reply #35 on: November 24, 2004, 09:24:16 pm »

Offline Heliodromus

  • Procurator Caesaris
  • Caesar
  • ****
  • Posts: 2176
Re:Phoenix on Pyre
« Reply #36 on: November 24, 2004, 10:19:09 pm »

Massanutten

  • Guest
Re:Phoenix on Pyre
« Reply #37 on: November 24, 2004, 11:52:20 pm »

Offline Numerianus

  • Procurator Caesaris
  • Caesar
  • ****
  • Posts: 1181
  • I love this forum!
Re:Phoenix on Pyre
« Reply #38 on: November 25, 2004, 04:05:46 am »

Offline Bluefish

  • Comitia Curiata II
  • Consul
  • ***
  • Posts: 243
  • I used to have a handle on life, but it broke
Re:Phoenix on Pyre
« Reply #39 on: November 25, 2004, 10:07:07 am »
HAM & EGGS-a day's work for a chicken, a lifetime commitment for a pig.  
The only difference between a rut & a grave is the depth

Offline Numerianus

  • Procurator Caesaris
  • Caesar
  • ****
  • Posts: 1181
  • I love this forum!
Re:Phoenix on Pyre
« Reply #40 on: November 25, 2004, 10:52:56 am »

Offline Heliodromus

  • Procurator Caesaris
  • Caesar
  • ****
  • Posts: 2176
Re:Phoenix on Pyre
« Reply #41 on: November 25, 2004, 11:45:28 am »

Offline Jochen

  • Tribunus Plebis Perpetuus
  • Procurator Monetae
  • Caesar
  • *****
  • Posts: 12311
  • Omnes vulnerant, ultima necat.
Re:Phoenix on Pyre
« Reply #42 on: November 25, 2004, 12:54:30 pm »

Offline Heliodromus

  • Procurator Caesaris
  • Caesar
  • ****
  • Posts: 2176
Re:Phoenix on Pyre
« Reply #43 on: November 25, 2004, 01:30:22 pm »

Offline Numerianus

  • Procurator Caesaris
  • Caesar
  • ****
  • Posts: 1181
  • I love this forum!
Re:Phoenix on Pyre
« Reply #44 on: November 25, 2004, 03:14:29 pm »

Offline Tiathena

  • Procurator Caesaris
  • Caesar
  • ****
  • Posts: 1131
  • Nullum magnum ingenium sine mixtura dementiae fuit
Re:Phoenix on Pyre
« Reply #45 on: November 26, 2004, 09:54:15 pm »
Facilius per partes in cognitionem totius adducimur.  ~ Seneca
My Gallery

Offline slokind

  • Tribuna Plebis Perpetua
  • Procurator Monetae
  • Caesar
  • *****
  • Posts: 6654
  • Art is an experimental science
    • An Art Historian's Numismatics Studies
Re:Phoenix on Pyre
« Reply #46 on: November 27, 2004, 12:20:12 am »

Offline Robert_Brenchley

  • Procurator Caesaris
  • Caesar
  • ****
  • Posts: 7307
  • Honi soit qui mal y pense.
    • My gallery
Re:Phoenix on Pyre
« Reply #47 on: November 27, 2004, 06:48:13 am »
Robert Brenchley

My gallery: https://www.forumancientcoins.com/gallery/index.php?cat=10405
Fiat justitia ruat caelum

Massanutten

  • Guest
Re:Phoenix on Pyre
« Reply #48 on: November 27, 2004, 01:33:13 pm »

Offline slokind

  • Tribuna Plebis Perpetua
  • Procurator Monetae
  • Caesar
  • *****
  • Posts: 6654
  • Art is an experimental science
    • An Art Historian's Numismatics Studies
Re:Phoenix on Pyre
« Reply #49 on: November 27, 2004, 06:11:25 pm »

Offline Jochen

  • Tribunus Plebis Perpetuus
  • Procurator Monetae
  • Caesar
  • *****
  • Posts: 12311
  • Omnes vulnerant, ultima necat.
Re:Phoenix on Pyre
« Reply #50 on: November 27, 2004, 06:38:00 pm »

Massanutten

  • Guest
Re:Phoenix on Pyre
« Reply #51 on: November 27, 2004, 07:50:33 pm »

Offline Tiathena

  • Procurator Caesaris
  • Caesar
  • ****
  • Posts: 1131
  • Nullum magnum ingenium sine mixtura dementiae fuit
Re:Phoenix on Pyre
« Reply #52 on: November 27, 2004, 10:13:21 pm »
Facilius per partes in cognitionem totius adducimur.  ~ Seneca
My Gallery

Massanutten

  • Guest
Re:Phoenix on Pyre
« Reply #53 on: November 27, 2004, 11:19:15 pm »

Offline Numerianus

  • Procurator Caesaris
  • Caesar
  • ****
  • Posts: 1181
  • I love this forum!
Re:Phoenix on Pyre
« Reply #54 on: November 28, 2004, 03:27:26 am »

Offline Tiathena

  • Procurator Caesaris
  • Caesar
  • ****
  • Posts: 1131
  • Nullum magnum ingenium sine mixtura dementiae fuit
Re:Phoenix on Pyre
« Reply #55 on: November 28, 2004, 12:30:59 pm »
Facilius per partes in cognitionem totius adducimur.  ~ Seneca
My Gallery

Offline Tiathena

  • Procurator Caesaris
  • Caesar
  • ****
  • Posts: 1131
  • Nullum magnum ingenium sine mixtura dementiae fuit
Re:Phoenix on Pyre
« Reply #56 on: November 28, 2004, 12:41:22 pm »
Facilius per partes in cognitionem totius adducimur.  ~ Seneca
My Gallery

Offline Robert_Brenchley

  • Procurator Caesaris
  • Caesar
  • ****
  • Posts: 7307
  • Honi soit qui mal y pense.
    • My gallery
Re:Phoenix on Pyre
« Reply #57 on: November 28, 2004, 01:03:50 pm »
Robert Brenchley

My gallery: https://www.forumancientcoins.com/gallery/index.php?cat=10405
Fiat justitia ruat caelum

Offline Steve Minnoch

  • Tribunus Plebis 2007
  • Procurator Monetae
  • Caesar
  • *****
  • Posts: 2307
Re:Phoenix on Pyre
« Reply #58 on: November 28, 2004, 01:13:08 pm »

Offline Robert_Brenchley

  • Procurator Caesaris
  • Caesar
  • ****
  • Posts: 7307
  • Honi soit qui mal y pense.
    • My gallery
Re:Phoenix on Pyre
« Reply #59 on: November 28, 2004, 02:08:15 pm »
Robert Brenchley

My gallery: https://www.forumancientcoins.com/gallery/index.php?cat=10405
Fiat justitia ruat caelum

Offline Numerianus

  • Procurator Caesaris
  • Caesar
  • ****
  • Posts: 1181
  • I love this forum!
Re:Phoenix on Pyre
« Reply #60 on: November 28, 2004, 03:22:11 pm »

Offline Rhetor

  • Consul
  • ***
  • Posts: 143
  • Tolle! Lege!
    • Personal Homepage
Re:Phoenix on Pyre
« Reply #61 on: November 28, 2004, 03:22:36 pm »

Offline Jochen

  • Tribunus Plebis Perpetuus
  • Procurator Monetae
  • Caesar
  • *****
  • Posts: 12311
  • Omnes vulnerant, ultima necat.
Re:Phoenix on Pyre
« Reply #62 on: November 28, 2004, 04:21:43 pm »

Massanutten

  • Guest
Re:Phoenix on Pyre
« Reply #63 on: November 28, 2004, 04:52:11 pm »

Offline Rhetor

  • Consul
  • ***
  • Posts: 143
  • Tolle! Lege!
    • Personal Homepage
Re:Phoenix on Pyre
« Reply #64 on: November 28, 2004, 05:18:08 pm »

Offline Bluefish

  • Comitia Curiata II
  • Consul
  • ***
  • Posts: 243
  • I used to have a handle on life, but it broke
Re:Phoenix on Pyre
« Reply #65 on: November 28, 2004, 05:35:26 pm »
HAM & EGGS-a day's work for a chicken, a lifetime commitment for a pig.  
The only difference between a rut & a grave is the depth

Offline Numerianus

  • Procurator Caesaris
  • Caesar
  • ****
  • Posts: 1181
  • I love this forum!
Re:Phoenix on Pyre
« Reply #66 on: November 29, 2004, 02:54:29 am »

Offline Steve Minnoch

  • Tribunus Plebis 2007
  • Procurator Monetae
  • Caesar
  • *****
  • Posts: 2307
Re:Phoenix on Pyre
« Reply #67 on: November 29, 2004, 03:22:30 am »

Offline Lech Stępniewski

  • Procurator Caesaris
  • Caesar
  • ****
  • Posts: 2927
    • NOT IN RIC
Re:Phoenix on Pyre
« Reply #68 on: December 13, 2004, 07:42:25 am »
Lech Stępniewski
NOT IN RIC
Poland

Offline Bluefish

  • Comitia Curiata II
  • Consul
  • ***
  • Posts: 243
  • I used to have a handle on life, but it broke
Re:Phoenix on Pyre
« Reply #69 on: December 13, 2004, 10:15:36 am »
HAM & EGGS-a day's work for a chicken, a lifetime commitment for a pig.  
The only difference between a rut & a grave is the depth

Massanutten

  • Guest
Re:Phoenix on Pyre
« Reply #70 on: December 13, 2004, 11:53:24 am »

Offline Heliodromus

  • Procurator Caesaris
  • Caesar
  • ****
  • Posts: 2176
Re:Phoenix on Pyre
« Reply #71 on: December 13, 2004, 12:05:42 pm »

Offline Numerianus

  • Procurator Caesaris
  • Caesar
  • ****
  • Posts: 1181
  • I love this forum!
Re:Phoenix on Pyre
« Reply #72 on: December 13, 2004, 12:40:01 pm »

Offline Lech Stępniewski

  • Procurator Caesaris
  • Caesar
  • ****
  • Posts: 2927
    • NOT IN RIC
Re:Phoenix on Pyre
« Reply #73 on: December 13, 2004, 12:55:13 pm »
Lech Stępniewski
NOT IN RIC
Poland

Offline slokind

  • Tribuna Plebis Perpetua
  • Procurator Monetae
  • Caesar
  • *****
  • Posts: 6654
  • Art is an experimental science
    • An Art Historian's Numismatics Studies
Re:Phoenix on Pyre
« Reply #74 on: December 13, 2004, 03:03:04 pm »

Hermes III

  • Guest
Re:Phoenix on Pyre
« Reply #75 on: December 14, 2004, 12:24:04 am »

Offline Bluefish

  • Comitia Curiata II
  • Consul
  • ***
  • Posts: 243
  • I used to have a handle on life, but it broke
Re:Phoenix on Pyre
« Reply #76 on: December 14, 2004, 12:31:15 am »
HAM & EGGS-a day's work for a chicken, a lifetime commitment for a pig.  
The only difference between a rut & a grave is the depth

Hermes III

  • Guest
Re:Phoenix on Pyre
« Reply #77 on: December 17, 2004, 04:42:38 am »

Hermes III

  • Guest
Re:Phoenix on Pyre
« Reply #78 on: December 17, 2004, 04:57:00 am »

Offline Numerianus

  • Procurator Caesaris
  • Caesar
  • ****
  • Posts: 1181
  • I love this forum!
Re:Phoenix on Pyre
« Reply #79 on: December 17, 2004, 05:11:07 am »

Hermes III

  • Guest
Re:Phoenix on Pyre
« Reply #80 on: December 18, 2004, 06:35:30 am »

Offline Robert_Brenchley

  • Procurator Caesaris
  • Caesar
  • ****
  • Posts: 7307
  • Honi soit qui mal y pense.
    • My gallery
Re:Phoenix on Pyre
« Reply #81 on: December 18, 2004, 06:40:41 am »
Robert Brenchley

My gallery: https://www.forumancientcoins.com/gallery/index.php?cat=10405
Fiat justitia ruat caelum

Hermes III

  • Guest
Re:Phoenix on Pyre
« Reply #82 on: December 18, 2004, 06:57:12 am »

 

All coins are guaranteed for eternity