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Author Topic: Not ancient, but I had to have it.  (Read 3390 times)

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Offline *Alex

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Not ancient, but I had to have it.
« on: June 26, 2014, 02:26:47 pm »
Not an ancient coin, not my collecting focus, and not that of the majority of the members of FORVM either I presume, but when I saw this rare British token, as a coin collector, I absolutely had to have it. It was issued in 1843 and it is one of only 72 tokens of this type which were struck.

The obverse depicts a female seated facing right, her right arm resting on several books, and holding a cornucopia from which coins are spilling, in front of her is an open coin cabinet.

The issuer of this token was an early 19th century coin collector and a member of the Numismatic Society of London. His monogram is on the reverse (not shown). The obverse inscription “VILIUS EST ARGENTUM AURO, VIRTUTIBUS AURUM” translates as, “Silver is of less value than gold, gold than virtue”.

*Alex.



Offline Jochen

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Re: Not ancient, but I had to have it.
« Reply #1 on: June 26, 2014, 02:32:29 pm »
Wonderful!

Offline curtislclay

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Re: Not ancient, but I had to have it.
« Reply #2 on: June 26, 2014, 02:50:46 pm »
Very nice!

Who was the collector who produced the token?
Curtis Clay

Offline Arados

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Re: Not ancient, but I had to have it.
« Reply #3 on: June 26, 2014, 03:21:58 pm »
Do we know what the rose shield/crest represents or is it just fictional ?

Offline David Atherton

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Re: Not ancient, but I had to have it.
« Reply #4 on: June 26, 2014, 03:25:05 pm »
I simply adore that piece! Is it possible to show the reverse as well?

Congrats on a fantastic addition.

Offline Adrian W

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Re: Not ancient, but I had to have it.
« Reply #5 on: June 26, 2014, 04:15:20 pm »
This might sound stupid are you sure its a token and not a medal as typically British tokens would have the name of the vendor and a value placed on it for use at their establishment I do not see that here unless its on the other side.

When in England as a kid,you used find tokens all the time in junk box's in the late 1960's and 70's as no one used to collect them I had a few as I thought they where interesting just wish I had kep them all and continued collecting them as they are no longer found in junk boxes and some bring quite a lot of money.

Adrian
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Offline Trimalchio

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Re: Not ancient, but I had to have it.
« Reply #6 on: June 26, 2014, 04:23:41 pm »
Do we know what the rose shield/crest represents or is it just fictional ?

Looks like a tudor rose:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tudor_rose

Beautiful token, I can understand why you had to have it.  +++

Offline *Alex

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Re: Not ancient, but I had to have it.
« Reply #7 on: June 26, 2014, 04:46:43 pm »
Very nice!

Who was the collector who produced the token?

Hi Curtis, Adrian

The collector was apparently a wine and spirit merchant from London called Benjamin Nightingale, I don't know if he could be classed as an Antiquarian but he was alledgedly well known as a coin collector. I have not been able to do much more research on the token so far as I have only just bought it. The picture is the dealer's photo but I intend to put up bigger, if not better, photographs of my own in my personal gallery after, hopefully, I have found out a bit more.

The token is 30mm in diameter, has a plain edge and it is listed in Bell's "Tradesmen's Tickets and Private Tokens 1785 -1819". But it doesn't have a mark of value, so it should perhaps be classed as a medal rather than a token, that however does not diminish it's attraction for me.  ;D

Below is the extract concerning the token from the 1903 issue of Hamer and the picture of the token from the plate of the same issue.

Alex.

Offline Kamnaskires

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Re: Not ancient, but I had to have it.
« Reply #8 on: June 26, 2014, 04:59:41 pm »
I simply adore that piece! Is it possible to show the reverse as well?

Congrats on a fantastic addition.


The reverse can be seen here: http://www.abccoinsandtokens.com/Bell.Middlesex.A3.003.html

Offline Kamnaskires

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Re: Not ancient, but I had to have it.
« Reply #9 on: June 26, 2014, 05:06:51 pm »
Some info on page 317 of The British Numismatic Journal, 1903/4, here (if link works):

http://books.google.com/books?id=zMo-AQAAMAAJ&printsec=frontcover#v=onepage&q&f=false


Offline curtislclay

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Re: Not ancient, but I had to have it.
« Reply #10 on: June 26, 2014, 05:10:58 pm »
According to Manville and Robertson, there were two Sotheby sales of Benjamin Nightingale's collection:

29 Nov. 1855, "Collector relinquishing the pursuit", "Benjamin NIGHTINGALE" in ANS copy; Greek, Roman, Tavern Tokens, Town Pieces, 17-18c Tokens, English and Foreign Medals, Books; 165 lots.

25-26 Feb. 1863, Benjamin NIGHTINGALE, decd; Roman, English, Foreign, Jettons, Medals, Numismatic Books, 359 lots.
Curtis Clay

Offline Adrian W

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Re: Not ancient, but I had to have it.
« Reply #11 on: June 26, 2014, 05:20:15 pm »
Its definitely a token and a very nice one with an interesting subject matter I wonder what his collection was like,its fun to find items that relate to coins I have a book on ancient coins from around 1550
and just bought this movie prop its rather large at a sale a few weeks ago,might have to hang in my office at work
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Offline crispina

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Re: Not ancient, but I had to have it.
« Reply #12 on: June 26, 2014, 05:23:24 pm »
Congratulations, Alex!  :)

This is from the February 13, 1863 edition of the London Daily News (page 8, column 6).

THE VALUABLE CABINET of COINS and MEDALS of the late BENJAMIN NIGHTINGALE, Esq.

MESSRS S. LEIGH SOTHEBY and WILKINSON, auctioneers of literary property and works illustrative of the fine arts, will SELL BY AUCTION, at their house, No. 13 (late 3), Wellington-street, Strand, W.C., on WEDNESDAY, Feb. 25, and following day, at 1 precisely, the valuable CABINET OF COINS and MEDALS of the late Benjamin Nightingale, Esq.; comprising a few Roman coins in gold, silver, and copper, in the highest state of preservation; a most valuable collection of English medals in all metals; rare and curious jetons, including a very perfect set of those struck to illustrate the history of the low countries; a few remarkable foreign medals, a choice library of numismatic books, several well-made cabinets, & c. – May be viewed two days previous, and catalogues had on receipt of two stamps.


Offline Adrian W

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Re: Not ancient, but I had to have it.
« Reply #13 on: June 26, 2014, 05:24:09 pm »
Here is a little more about him from an auction listing for a book he must have had made for his collection that came up for auction earlier in the year.

Description: B. Nightingale. (Benjamin Nightingale of Farnworth, non-conformist Minister (Congregational) and Antiquarian, fl 1856. A superior plain paper book of 1830's - 1840's with marbled end papers and full leather binding, titled on the spine 'Collectanea', title page states 'Collectanea Antiquarian Numismatic Heraldic' in illuminated letters. The following eighty or so pages bear superb fixed in drawings of coins, beads, brooches etc from Roman, Anglo Saxon and Classical Civilisations, also heraldic items of Tudor period etc with text; this is followed by an index; loose between the pages are a number of illustrations, letters and poems etc, in several hands. The quality is of the very highest throughout. Many of the featured items believed to now be in the ownership of The British Museum.
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Offline Arados

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Re: Not ancient, but I had to have it.
« Reply #14 on: June 27, 2014, 02:50:38 am »
Do we know what the rose shield/crest represents or is it just fictional ?

Looks like a tudor rose:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tudor_rose

Beautiful token, I can understand why you had to have it.  +++

Thanks Trimalchio, i was well aware that it could possibly be Tudor or rose argent (House of York). My question was more on the lines of does the crest actually represent a house/family name or is the shield purely fictional. I see that Adrian has partly answered my question by mentioning that Benjamin Nightingale studied heraldry from the Tudor period.

Offline *Alex

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Re: Not ancient, but I had to have it.
« Reply #15 on: June 28, 2014, 03:47:10 pm »
Thank you Curtis, Crispina and Adrian for your information.

BTW FYI, The weight of the token is 14.2gms and the die axis 12.

*Alex.

 

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